Rear Beam Help Required, Rotherham Area!

[Andy101 4]

After a year sitting in the garage I've finally taken the rear beam off my car due to the shocking ride. I suspected the beam had seized, and when jacked up the driver side wheel left the ground with the car and won't budge. I've read horror stories about un-seizing beams and I'm wondering if I'm opening a can of worms. I've never worked on a rear beam before so I'm looking for some help if anyone's local, even if it's just to take a look and break the bad news lol. I'm in Rotherham if anyone wants to help get another pug back on the road drop me a reply, thanks.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Pm Tom Fenton

 

 

End thread

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

It is possible to get a seized beam apart if its not too bad .Remove the a/roll bar and end plates . Once the countersink headed screws and offset washers are removed plus the screw/nut at the other end of the torsion bar you can get a big lever in between the trailing arm and tube casting and heave on it while tapping the arm out with a decent size hammer .I removed the steel ring and the shaft seal then scraped the crud out and soaked it with penetrating oil for days .

It will need a complete rebuild with new shafts and bearings etc but as long as the crosstube body has not been damaged its reuseable .

Just did this on my spare beam and the outer needle race came out stuck on the shaft !

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

This is good advice.

[welshpug 1,656]

Pm Tom Fenton

 

 

End thread

 

 

This, let someone else deal with the faff of a dead beam

 

 

This was my last "seized" beam.

 

 

 

 

 

and these, were "free moving, so should be good..."

 

 

[Andy101 4]

So until I can inspect the crosstube body for internal damage I won't know if it's scrap. Can you tell from the outside at all if damage has occurred?

[welshpug 1,656]

only if its gone as far as the top picture really, where the arm shaft is obviously off-centre.

[Andy101 4]

Doesn't look that bad, appears to be straight from the crosstube. Any tips for pulling the seized arm off apart from a massive hammer?

[welshpug 1,656]

other than a press, not really!

 

if I ever do need to "persuade" an arm at all I put a damper bolt in the opposite way round as a sacrificial part, so you don't damage the arm,

[Andy101 4]

Is it normal that the arb lever wont move on a seized beam. I'm guessing it might be stuck in the arm shaft on the seized end?

[welshpug 1,656]

you need to wind an M12x1.50 bolt into the right hand ride to draw the end plate off the ARB, don't forget the M8 bolt, leave the opposite one in to stop the whole arb from spinning.

 

 

never had an end plate seized in a trailing arm shaft, they have a rubber bush around them so there's no metal to metal contact, though they can be stubborn on the splines, especially the left hand side which you should ideally leave alone.

Edited March 16, 2014 by welshpug

[Andy101 4]

Yeah it's weird, the arb lever won't turn at all. Am I right in thinking I should be able to rotate it a little even before I wind the M12 bolt in, I've taken out the bolt holding it to the trailing arm but it won't budge? Not sure what's holding it from rotating. Thanks for the reply.

[welshpug 1,656]

have you taken both M8 bolts out?

 

there can be a fair bit of friction on the neoprene seal and the rubber bush, especially with a few decades of rust added.

[Andy101 4]

Yeah both sides are out, it's almost as if the lever is fixed at the same angle the seized radius arm is. It moves a little on the free side and I can swing the radius arm without moving the lever, but the other side won't move. Maybe it's just years of rust holding it to the radius arm, going to cover it in penetrating spray and let it soak.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Well amazingly Andy is only about a mile as the crow flies away from me!

So I've called in this afternoon, sadly one side of his beam is seized and by the way the arm is sat the beam tube is 99% worn beyond re use.

I have lent him a 12x1.5 bolt so he can get the anti roll bar out and have a go at getting it in bits.

Well worth the effort though as his car looks really nice.

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

20 years under the rear of a car is a hard life , enormous forces go through the rear suspension and it hard to imagine a beam that is in regular use rusting up . I used to wonder about seized beams , I had 3 205 GTI's and my Goodwood over about 20 years with no issues at all in this dept but I have experienced it recently with 2 309 beams and both were laid up for many years before I got them .One was solid both sides and the other is my current spare and I soon freed up the one side .

[Andy101 4]

Huge thanks to Tom for advice on the beam, I managed to get one side lever off the arb this evening with the M12 bolt method. I'll remove the arb tomorrow and then start on the torsion bars and the radius arms. It looks like one is going to be a problem as it's stuck fast and pointing at an angle rather than straight out the crosstube. I guess storing a 23 year old car for any period of time can be bad news on a worn beam leading to seized radius arms. Do people generally store cars off the ground, eg: on axle stands, or would that make no difference?

[welshpug 1,656]

I doubt it would make any difference at all, its just pure wear that has gone un-noticed or ignored and gone too far.

 

once you have one end plate off the arb should just pull out of the other side, might need to drift it through if the arm shaft is at quite an angle.

[Andy101 4]

Got one side radius arm and torsion bar out, the seized side is giving me problems. The torsion bar is still in, and under load due to the radius arm's position, and refuses to move, I've introduced my sledge hammer to the radius arm but no joy yet. I'm going to try some heat around both torsion bar spline ends and try to remove that before I get busy with the sledge hammer again.

Kudos to anyone who has managed to strip a seized beam!!

[Anthony 1,002]

It will need a lot of force to get it apart, but it's doable.

 

If it's seized then you'll end up leaving the trailing arm shaft inside the tube and knocking the arm off the end of it, and that's typically 6-7 tonnes worth of force on a press to do that. If the torsion bar is pretty firmly held in place by the inevitable corrosion then you could be in for a bit of a fight.

 

Be careful not to damage the trailing arms - beating seven shades out of it with a sledgehammer will get it apart (eventually) but you risk deforming the arm if you're not careful.

 

To be honest, despite what's been said, if the arm was seized then the tube is going to be scrap.

[welshpug 1,656]

Unless you have oxy-propane or similar, you havent a hope of heat making a difference i'm afraid.

[Alastairh 47]

I use the large lower shock bolt in the trailing arm, but reverse the bolt and use the bolt head as my target when swining the sledge, meaning you won't muller the arm.

 

Standard blow torch propane does help, i use it for knocking xsara vts beams apart which are ten times worse than any 205 beam, but if you stick at it with the sledge using my technique it will come apart as Anthony describes. Also, keep the torsion bar boltec into the trailing arm, you will create work for yourself removing the torsion bar if your beam tube is scrap, which it sounds like it is.

 

Al

[Andy101 4]

Well you were right about the heat, I got it as hot as it was going to get but still no joy, ran out of gas in the end!

Going to try the above method with a bolt so I don't damage the arm. I can see why people just buy a ready refurbed beam now.

[Andy101 4]

Thanks for all the advice and tips everyone, finally this afternoon after getting rather brutal with the sledge hammer a chink of light...movement!!

 

Then at last the arm was off!

 

As lot's of people said, the tube is now a large paperweight with the axle shaft stuck.

Big thanks to Tom for helping out. Can't wait to start cleaning everything up and start the rebuild.

 

[Andy101 4]

Been cleaning the tb's today and found the best way is a combination of knotted steel wheel and zirconium flap disc. The latter is quite aggressive so keep it moving but it does a quicker job than the knotted wire wheel. Only £2.98 from toolstation, bargain!

Here's my before and after: