Getting The Power To The Road?

[Ian205 3 1 Cars]

hi all, i have a 1600 8v 205, it has a piper cam(unknown model) and kent cam puley, i have no idea what power its putting out as they were already fitted before i bought it, when i had it out for a few runs if you were to put the shoe down it would tend to spin on just one wheel, rather than grip and pull..

 

what would those with the experience recomend? diff?clutch? etc .. took out the clutch the ther day and it wasnt in bad shape

cheers

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

s*it tyres?

[Ian205 3 1 Cars]

tyres werent great, ,but even taking off it would still s*it one tyre

[jackherer 543]

You need an LSD of some sort if you want to spin two wheels.

[Ian205 3 1 Cars]

its not spinning wheels im after , it would just be nice to have it pulling true

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

I think the best place to start would be with some decent tyres.

[jackherer 543]

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek...

 

The point is a standard open differential will always send the power to the one wheel with the *least* grip.

 

An LSD will always send some power to both wheels so as long as you have some grip you'll accelerate but ultimately if the road is slippery and your tyres are not great you'll still get wheelspin but with an LSD it will be two wheels not just one.

[dcc 855]

Most people on here will tell you a LSD of sorts would be good. That's because they're right. A LSD will show up any flaw in your geometry / wear in bushes so be warned. its also not cheap, around £500 to get a LSD and get it fitted yourself.

 

Another option would be to learn how to accelerate the car without wheel spinning.

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

Crap tyres, winter roads etc!

[Tom Fenton 1,561]

Brand and type of tyres??

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Get a boat anchor under the bonnet works a treat trust

[A1AXX 26 2 Cars]

Day to day mine coped fine with yoko a048's in the summer.. Different story on track, just can't get enough traction, to the point where any amount of throttle mid corner lights the inside tyre up.. So diff for me

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

Day to day mine coped fine with yoko a048's in the summer.. Different story on track, just can't get enough traction, to the point where any amount of throttle mid corner lights the inside tyre up.. So diff for me

doesn't make sense though, it's the inside wheel that's driving and when that becomes unloaded and off the ground you won't have any drive at all to light up any tyre with an open diff, sounds like your going in way too hard, if you have to lift at all after you've made the apex then your getting it wrong, but for sure you need a diff, even a standard 1.9 has too much torque steer under power for it's own good... probably also you have difficulty getting heat into the tyres i.e. UK climate... are your 48's picking up lots of other rubber from the track? they should be, if not then they are probably too cold....

 

tyres werent great, ,but even taking off it would still s*it one tyre

it's torque steer, it's normal under full power, your motor is tuned to a point too and so will we be worse, you need to accelerate progressively, or buy a diff.... a properly tuned 1.6/1.9 8V is like driving the standard car at full power in the wet, the car really should have had an ATB diff as standard OE imho

[A1AXX 26 2 Cars]

doesn't make sense though, it's the inside wheel that's driving and when that becomes unloaded and off the ground you won't have any drive at all to light up any tyre with an open diff, sounds like your going in way too hard, if you have to lift at all after you've made the apex then your getting it wrong, but for sure you need a diff, even a standard 1.9 has too much torque steer under power for it's own good... probably also you have difficulty getting heat into the tyres i.e. UK climate... are your 48's picking up lots of other rubber from the track? they should be, if not then they are probably too cold....

 

Yea it's the inside tyre.. Well there's one wheel that can't spin up, outside tyre, so any left over torque will just spin up the unloaded tyre surely?

 

The rears obviously do pick up, the fronts definitely don't. Plenty of heat in them. If I was picking up rubber in the front, I wouldn't be happy!

[A1AXX 26 2 Cars]

Double post

Edited February 20, 2014 by A1AXX

[welshpug 1,675]

Torque steer?! not in mine.

[Anthony 1,003]

205's don't have a great deal of mechanical grip as standard.

 

Poor tyres and cold wet and slimey roads only serve to highlight that.

 

That said, 205's are generally very sensitive to suspension wear and geometry and will often drive and behave very badly when there's nothing blatently worn or loose - very easy for a 205 to pass an MOT and yet drive appalingly on the road for example. One of the ways this can show itself is lack of mid-corner traction and the car pulling all over the road (so called "torque steer") under acceleration.

[Tom Fenton 1,561]

Torque steer?! not in mine.

 

Agreed, 205's do not torque steer, go and drive a Astra GTE 16v......

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

To A1AXX > I misinterpreted your post in some fashion... there is no drive to the outside wheel with an open diff, only the unloaded inside wheel, so basically no drive at all. You have tyre temp... so for sure you need a diff, even the road car does.

 

To WP > Yes, but you have a closed/LSD in your road car, don't you?

 

To TF > Sorry, but I disagree, a tuned 205 with an open diff certainly does torque steer to varying degrees especially uphill, I know this from experience so I do not understand why you say there is no torque steer when you obviously have very quick 205's yourself? and yip, the GTE 16V was horrific, perhaps down to wheel size, 80's tyres and 16v power etc, good engine though a little soft...

[jackherer 543]

and yip, the GTE 16V was horrific, perhaps down to wheel size, 80's tyres and 16v power etc, good engine though a little soft...

 

Don't they have unequal length driveshafts too? (i.e. no intermediate bearing on the longer one)

[welshpug 1,675]

No, its an AP suretrac which is an ATB not an LSD.

 

However I have only had it in there for a year, I've had the car 8 years.

[Tom Fenton 1,561]

 

Don't they have unequal length driveshafts too? (i.e. no intermediate bearing on the longer one)

Spot on, massively unequal and this is why they torque steer.

A 205 does not due to equal length shafts.

Losing grip on one side of the car causing it to pull about the road is not torque steer.

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

pardon me for mistaking this for torque steer, your right, but in my view it equates to the same thing, the effect is not dissimilar, so I should say my car doesn't torque steer but it pulls itself across the road from left to right on uneven road surfaces, especially uphill and under full power on normal road tyres, most FWD transverse cars do the same, probably the main difference being a diff won't cure torque steer but maybe make it worse, but it will help a wayward car with equal length driveshafts transfer power down to the road better, yeah, damn it! that's what I meant

 

WP > how do you rate the AP suretrac? I'm looking for an ATB and not sure which to go for

Edited February 20, 2014 by Mac Crash

[Ian205 3 1 Cars]

the car will be getting all new bushings all around with new shocks all around, so this factor should not effect it next time its out, i just want set it up right before putting it all back together, i'l also be fitting a few more bits to the engine, see what it can push out, so id like to know what would the best clutch/gearbox setup is