To Anyone Considering Doing A 16V Themselves

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I'm sure there are a few people who can stroll through it, but I have to say, as a non mechanic or fiddler with cars, that if anyone (who doesn't mess with cars regularly) is considering converting their car, they should get someone else to do it who's done it a few times, and who knows these cars and variations well.

 

I've spent countless hrs on here reading up, and asking Q's which thankfully have been answered swiftly by lots of people, most prominently Welshpug, and tbh, in hindsight if i knew I could have given it to someone, with a composite parts list, and it would be given it back to me converted to a high standard, I wish i had bitten the bullet and paid for it to be done.

 

It probably didn't help me that i'm Ph 1.5 (not in line with the wiring guide), although electrical is my game, and i can deal with/understand that side eventually.....I bought a Ph. "X" 16V engine and a separate Ph."Y" loom..... just to keep it interesting.

 

The conversion is time consuming, no matter how good you are with a spanner.

 

There are things that need to be obtained; if you don't want to buy an engine hoist then you need to have someone to borrow one from, and you'll probably need someone who can press your lower mount. The running about takes time if you don't feck about with cars and aren't set up to do it.

 

Fortunately i have a 205 buddy who's done a conversion that's gonna help me out with the nitty gritty. Without him i wouldn't even have contimplated a conversion.

 

On the cost side, i have no idea how much has been spent already (scared to count it up), the big and little things soon add up, and fast. I'm sure i've procured most things required but i'm sure it will grow further before the key is turned.

 

Oh, and on a separate note, if you're like me (non-mechanic) and try to do it yourself, you can expect:

 

1. Your shaving pattern changes.

2. Your "good" clothes selection reduces as your "work" clothes selection increases.

3. You start to feel guilty about neglecting your closest loved ones.

4. Your finger nails/hands are constantly manky.

5. All jacket pockets have a nut or a bolt or something 205 related in them.... and you don't know where from.

6. Packages arrive, and you don't know what's in them.

7. You start to use an alternative/work address to get packages sent to, to hide your spending.

 

It's been an experience, and I hope the increase in enjoyment is worth all this effort.

 

As much as i love the wee car i have, given the choice, i'd opt to buy a good solid car with a tidy conversion already done..... than do this again.

[calvinhorse 870]

I can see where you are coming from but for me driving down the road in a car I built from a shell is far more satisfying than driving something I just bought or paid someone to do.

 

Plus you know the car so any breaks or bodges and you only have yourself to blame! Which is nicer than paying someone to bodge it for you!

 

Well done for completing it!

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Calvin, it's not even it yet! Lol

 

Tomorrow, and then back out, then back in permanently in a few weeks time.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

I would like to disagree! I mean of course if you don't know which end of a screw driver to use then don't attempt this but if I could do it to a relatively good level it can't be that hard. There are many high quality conversions out there done at home, but as we all know there are also many dodgy ones.

[peter 20]

I've fitted many Peugeot engines and only once used and engine crane and it didn't make it any easier, I just unbolt it and lower it down on the jack. Simple

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Allye, I'm no stranger to a spanner and don't mind getting dirty. It's more about the time involved doing your first one im emphasising. Admittedly a lot of my time was spent cleaning up an engine, but there has also been a lot of time researching what parts are required. I could think of better things to do!

 

You also need a decent bit of space to do it, and I would even contemplate doing it outdoors.... Not in Scotland anyway.

[jackherer 543]

When I first joined this forum in the late nineties I had never done any significant work on a car and within a year I had done my first MI16 swap, it did take a while and there were a few frustrations but the first time I drove it was amazing, I suggest you wait until you reach that stage before you pass judgement... I know how these projects go and what stage you are at psychologically, you've done loads of work, spent loads of cash and got nothing in return, it's the lowest point in even the most successful projects, you just have to keep going in the knowledge that it will get much better.

 

In the last fifteen + years (!) I have done countless Mi16 swaps and easily bang them out in a weekend now even on my driveway in the winter, and I've helped loads more people from on here with their own conversions, many times I have arrived right at the end of a project and done the final wiring or whatever then watched the owner fire it up for the first time.

 

I've done similar work on other cars too and a 205 16v swap is one of the simpler conversions, but once you've finished one you'll feel a lot more confident about what you can take on.

[Mattr5uk 20 5 Cars]

The experience of doing it yourself is priceless for all the new shiny parts there's MasterCard

I've always been told (not that I ever listen) do it once do it right. Seeing what you've done with yours so far makes me want to do more with mine before I "throw" the engine in.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Cheers Jack, I'm not down in the dumps about it at all, just surprised at the amount of work involved.

 

On a more positive note, I managed to take my engine out today myself, to my surprise the actual lift was the easiest bit of it.

Edited February 15, 2014 by dobboy

[camgti 56]

Yea they are definitly a bigger job than most think. Especially if you do it properly and for the first time.

 

It will all be worth it. Your putting in the time and $ now. As was mentioned above it all piles up, looks like no progress, then it starts taking shape and it still takes more work. Then finally kicks into life.

 

You will foget about all of it on the first drive!

 

Keep up the great work.

 

These conversions are always harder than they look when its the first time.

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

Try re shelling one in under 3 months - driving it to the MOT test centre, then a 120 mile shakedown to the Festival of Speed and two days later drive it to Spain!

I had the tools and did it in my spare time, it wasn't that easy and yes time consuming. Even to get the engine out of one, prepped and into the other and running took 5 days.

I split it up into segments, engine / drive train / plumbing / engine electrics / brakes / suspension - I found that that helped.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Try re shelling one in under 3 months

Ha! I laugh in the face of your 3months you slacker. I completely reshelled the rallye into the xs in 4 days then drove away after. I mean reshelled to. Wire wheeled the under side, sealed it. Beam, fuel tank, brake and fuel lines, dash and engine bay wiring looms, front subframe and suspension and of course the actual engine and all the plumbing oh and the carpet and seats for good measure.

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

You're much younger and youthful than me!

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Small lists are the way to go, 6 or so items at a time. It's easy to get overwhelmed when looking at a list as long as your arm.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

It was 4 12hr+ days. I've never made a list! Just go at it with what ever I can get on with. Prob a bad way to go about it.

[Edp 67 3 Cars]

1. Your shaving pattern changes.

2. Your "good" clothes selection reduces as your "work" clothes selection increases.

3. You start to feel guilty about neglecting your closest loved ones.

4. Your finger nails/hands are constantly manky.

5. All jacket pockets have a nut or a bolt or something 205 related in them.... and you don't know where from.

6. Packages arrive, and you don't know what's in them.

7. You start to use an alternative/work address to get packages sent to, to hide your spending.

So true!

:D

[welshpug 1,657]

For someone under the thumb maybe

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

For someone under the thumb maybe

Not under the thumb at all.

 

That's the 16V in for the second time. My pre-modified manifold was bent too much and was too close to my gear linkage stuff...

 

So it was cut again, in the hope i could bend it from under the car to suit, and then lift the engine out, but the fecking thing is too springy and won't rest where i need it to. So i'll need to lift out, bend, and drop back in again.

 

I changed the angle of the mani prior to sitting it in this time, where it sits now seems not bad but could be better, i can fit a down pipe to it but the flanges aren't really meeting square when i lift the end of the down pipe up to where i'm guessing the horizontal part of the pipe should run/sit.

 

What sort of distance/gap should i be looking for between the end of the manifold and the seam of the bulkhead? (i think a 20mm gap would suit the horizontal part of exhaust, but is this adequate clearance for any engine movement?

 

And, looking up at the end of manifold from under car, should the angle allow for a clear direct line right through down to the floor missing all the bars etc (even though the downpipe kicks horizontal prior to the bars?)

 

Looks like i have at least two more engine in and outs, which i'm not really too fussed about as i can do it in about 20 mins now by myself, if i use all four of my arms and my spare leg.

 

Like i said.... buy one already done or get someone else to do it!

 

Appreciate an answer to my two Q's above please.

 

TIA

[speno 239 2 Cars]

I can see where you are coming from but for me driving down the road in a car I built from a shell is far more satisfying than driving something I just bought or paid someone to do.

 

Plus you know the car so any breaks or bodges and you only have yourself to blame! Which is nicer than paying someone to bodge it for you!

 

Well done for completing it!

This ^^

 

At the mo I'm doing a complete rebuild on a 205 , I'm no mechanic either , Tom F is coming over to look at a beam for me and that is about it ( which i will learn from )

To me I get more satisfaction from doing it and taking my time

I'm not a fan of ' here is my car I've paid someone to shine it up and do everything to it'

[GLPoomobile 958]

Well I for one think it's commendable to put up a topic like this as it's a valuable reminder that someone considering this needs to carefully consider all the options and weigh everything up.

 

I'm not surprised that so many of the replies are in support of DIY, that's what we do here. But one cap does not fit all, and clearly it's not going to be the right approach for everyone.

 

Many of us will have bought pre-converted cars only to find that they are a catalogue of hidden bodges. In fact the same can be said of un-converted cars, as anything is this age will have been at the mercy of some idiot at some stage in it's life. There's a lot to be said for the enthusiasm to DIY, but you also need to recognise your limitations, and sometimes it is better to have someone else do it to a far higher standard than you can yourself. There's absolutely no shame in that at all.

 

But on the flip side, giving your car to a so called professional and paying professional rates does not always guarantee a professional install. You have to be careful who you trust. Sometimes if you go at a project slowly and carefully, with all the right tools and the right information, you can make something better than a so called professional that has thrown it together to a budget and a timescale.

 

It all comes down to the individual's needs, wants, budget, timescales, ability etc. Completing a big project is satisfying, but it won't be as satisfying if you have to live with an unreliable dog that drives like crap, when you could have had it done properly in the first place.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

1. Your shaving pattern changes.

2. Your "good" clothes selection reduces as your "work" clothes selection increases.

3. You start to feel guilty about neglecting your closest loved ones.

4. Your finger nails/hands are constantly manky.

5. All jacket pockets have a nut or a bolt or something 205 related in them.... and you don't know where from.

6. Packages arrive, and you don't know what's in them.

7. You start to use an alternative/work address to get packages sent to, to hide your spending.

8. You start off the day with a few jobs in mind, and before the day is done you've completed 3, or 4, or 5, "new" jobs, to allow you to get to the job you actually intended to do!, and spotted another 3 to add to the task list.

Tangent Man

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

This thread is great, some really good replies so far, due to not using anti freeze and predictable cambelt failure I was forced to do my turbo conversion with no knowledge about it whatsoever in a tiny council garage. That started last december and I completed it on my birthday in june with a cost of about 2 grand. I did go overboard a little.

 

Easily the worst engine swap/conversion i have ever done and I have done a few over the years, there's some considerable alteration needed but I did it all properly and bodged nothing.

 

Advice on here is priceless and i wouldn't have been able to start it without the knowledge and just as important having somewhere central to buy parts from people that had them rather than waiting and praying that something would get listed on ebay some day.

 

Apart from the freezing cold and scarce daylight hours one of my biggest problems was (and you can add this to your list dobboy) buying stuff off ebay that turns up while you are at work then you have to wait a few days till you can pick it up or weekend when you are off work because no ones ever bloody in when the snail mail man comes with it.

 

Also buying parts that don't fit properly because of the phase changes or broken/worn out parts from unscrupulous sellers on ebay.

 

If I was in the same situation again I would of just sourced another head to keep it simple. 6 months with no car and a family is hell.

 

Bit to add on, I had no help physically at any time apart from 2 lads to help me lift the engine or drag it it rather (boat anchor) then it was all the jack it up method from then on.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Slo

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Slo, i'll add it to the list although i've not had that prob tbh.... but then again half our street's parcels end up in my front porch.

 

But regarding ebay, i had seven bumpers in my garage, all from there, and only one or two are slightly better than what i had to begin with. Even the guy at the local tip has told me "no more car crap" (unless you cross his palm with silver of course), despite me chopping them and at times planking them in black bags with dirty nappies.

 

And don't get me started on Ebays "chocolate" tools..... (adjustable) 10mm spanners.... 10mm before you start, 12mm after the first time you've used it and lost the skin off a knuckle!

[damien 22 1 Cars]

how about getting half way into the converstion then finding a big list of repares that need doing, running out of funds then lossing intrest.

i will get back on it ....... one day

[ASBGTi 9]

This is a great thread. It's nice to hear peoples real life stories and what challenges they face. I bought my first 205 about 6 months ago and whilst I'm not doing a full rebuild I seem to be just correcting all the stuff that isn't right from whoever put it together! It's fine if the car is just a toy and there is no real pressure to get it finished. I can't imagine what it's like if you need to get the car on the road because that's your family car, you have my sympathy on that one! I've found the key is to take you time and do things right the first time, do things in stages rather than jumping from one job to another.

If I am being completely honest this forum is probably the best I've been on for this sort of thing however, sometimes it's not understood that people's skill/knowledge levels vary.