Detailing Advice Please!

[Robbiedundy 58 4 Cars]

So I bought a cherry red 205 gti, with small bits of lacquer peel on the roof, went to wash it a few days after and all the lacquer came off the roof -

I'm going to try and powerwash the lacquer off the rear quarters then polish the complete car, if it doesn't come off the rear quarters I'll just wetsand the lacquer back to some edge so it doesn't look as noticeable. The cars obviously been resprayed at some point unsucessfully, but that's not an option for me. I'm either going to use an oribital sander with foam/wool polishing attachments or buy a rotary machine polisher. Here's where I need the advice - is the sander any use? Here's a picture of it -

It's got 6 speeds, you can see its specs on the side, it has these polishing attachments but they're probably crap so if yous think the sander would be any use I'll buy some well known ones.

If the sander is a waste of time, what machine polisher would you suggest buying?

Next - what polish, etc to use. Bearing in mind all of the lacquer is off I don't want to cut into the paint as there wont be much left to polish, what would you suggest?

After all that, what do I use to protect it after I'm finished polishing it?

 

Any advice would be great,

Cheers,

Robbie.

[iPlod999 143 1 Cars]

Depending on your experience in Detailing I would imagine a orbital sander or a rotary will ruin what's left of the paintwork.

 

I use a DA polisher much safer to use.

 

They can be got here for reasonable prices

 

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/

 

or the bay for 2nd hand one's.

 

I would probably go down the route of wet sanding with 3000 grade paper and then using a none aggressive pad and polish. If you want more cut then up the pad and polish.

 

In regard to protection then Dodo Juice panel pots do not break the bank at £6. 1 pot will cover a 205 6 or 7 times.

 

I'm working throughout tonight and if I get a chance I'll put a more detail reply and stick on a few links.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I would be worried about trying to polish with the equipment you have unless you have a good amount of experience and go VERY carefully. If you are a beginner, invest in some proper polishing kit (and by proper I don't mean stupidly expensive, I just mean appropriate for the job at hand). You'll probably get a few people trying to scare you, saying you'll wreck the paint if you try to machine polish it. Rubbish. Approach any job like a f***wit and you'll get in trouble. Approach a job with the necessary research, care and common sense and you'll be fine.

 

Have a read on Polished Bliss as they have good guides even if you aren't buying from them. There's also a channel on Youtube - Ammo NYC - that's pretty good for learning from.

 

Don't get too bogged down in product choice. It's a mine field and a mind f*** as there's so much choice, and you can spend stupid amounts of money. Just get a reasonable DA polisher, appropriate pads, a cutting compound and wax to start, After that you can start thinking about fillers, glazes, sealers etc.

 

Oh, and even though you will be polishing (and probably wet sanding too) DO go over it with a clay bar first. You need to clean the paint before polishing or sanding as otherwise any dirt (even if you can't see it) could be picked up and scratch deeper in to the paint when you sand/polish.

Edited February 2, 2014 by GLPoomobile

[welshpug 1,648]

personally, I wouldn't waste your money buying polishers etc, by the time you've accrued a decent setup and practised on scrap panels, you could have paid a pro to sort it for you.

 

be it having it repainted, or simply having a car cleaning guy give the whole thing a MOP.

[GLPoomobile 958]

That's fine if you can get it professionally sorted for £100. I doubt it. With careful shopping he could get the items he needs to do it himself for £100. Practice panels? I never bothered.

 

But then there is how much value one places on one's time. It is a lot of work when you are new to this stuff, no matter what anyone else tells you. All depends if you are keen to get stuck in or just want it sorted for minimal hassle.

[iPlod999 143 1 Cars]

Here's a pm I sent to EDP a little while ago. Hope it comes out ok on here.

 

Oh dear. Do you really know what you are letting yourself in for?

 

 

 

To start with as with most things in life. It is all about techniq. Earlier on I was talking about how we all used 1 sponge over a car, rinsed it out in 1 bucket and then threw the filty water we had collected all over the car.

 

 

 

Now I only use the 2 bucket method.

 

 

 

The bigger the bucket the better. More space for the dirt to fall down in. You can go onto the detailing sellers sites and pay £30 for a pair. I went to Tops Tiles and paid £3.99 each for 30 litre buckets.

 

 

 

http://www.toppstile...ing-Bucket.html

 

 

 

1 bucket has the suds in at the other bucket is to rinse the mit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sponges are no good for cars. They hold the dirt and the grit inbetween the sponge and the paint. This causes the round swirls that you can see.

 

 

 

You can pick up a Noodle Wash Mit for a couple of quid in Asda and yes they are OK.

 

 

 

However, a Sheepskin wash mit is the way to go. Detailing sites sell these from about £20 each. Although, Halfords, sell one for about £8 and it is fine.

 

 

 

http://www.halfords....tegoryId_165609

 

 

 

A wash mit absorbs the dirt an grit into itself away from the paint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Car Shampoo. I use a plain sort of shampoo. The likes of Tripple Wax have too many products within them. Once you have protection on your car whether it be wax or sealants then the Tripple Wax all singing all dancing all promising stuff with strip off that protection.

 

 

 

Currently, I use Zymol Natrual Car Wash. It smells great, you will be smelling all your products. Haha!

 

 

 

http://www.halfords....tegoryId_165682

 

 

 

When using and products that you mix with water you need to use the dilution rates that they have printed on the label. I used to put a couple of glugs in and put water in. Alot of the time the mix rate is far too strong and you end up with dried on shampoo on the car which you will not noticed until you have finished, And guess what...........you have to start all over again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are going to go down the machine polishing route, i'll get onto those in a bit. Then you need clay. When you clay a car this will pick up smaller contaiments from your paintwork. If you machine polish and do not clay you will pick up these contaniments in your pad and it will get dirty and clogged up.

 

 

 

The one I use is Farecla G3 clay. Again from Halfords.

 

 

 

http://www.halfords....tegoryId_255233

 

 

 

When you clay a car you need to deep the clay lubricated so it glides over the paintwork. Some people use a Clay Lube. However, I have found that jest a weak mix of car shampoo and water in a sprayer works just fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Drying your car. Back in the day we all used Chamois Leather. If you have one of these at the moment please please please throw it in the bin. These are worse than a sponge at getting hold of grit and dragging/scratching your paint.

 

 

 

What you need is a drying towel 2. x 1.5 in size. Asda do these normally for about £2. When using these you pat the car dry rather that wiping. You will never guess why???? If you wipe you scratch the paintwork.

 

 

 

 

 

Now maching polishing. There are 2 types of machine. A Rotary or a Dual Action, DA, polisher. A rotary will sping the pad round and round in a circle. A DA spins around in a figure of 8. A rotary will give quicker and sometimes better results. However, you can vey easily burn through your paint, taking it right off, as the pad is more concerntrated on the area you are working on.

 

 

 

A DA is always moving in a figure of 8 so you are less likely to get the heat build up that causes the burn through.

 

 

 

This is the DA I have.

 

 

 

http://www.cleanyour.../prod_1212.html

 

 

 

The kit that you get with it is very very good. The Meguiars 105 and 205 compounds are use by many DIYers and pro's alike. Again the Hex pads are very highly rated.

 

 

 

I would never be able to expain in a million years in text of how you maching polish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of my learning has been reading guides and watching The Junkman videos on youtube.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.c...kman2000/videos

 

 

 

This guy is great. He loads up a 40 minute videos on most things to do with detailing and he is enjoyable to watch.

 

 

 

2 bucket wash.

 

 

 

Machine Polishing.

 

 

 

 

 

Once you have machined polished your car you need to start protection.

 

 

 

I begin with Sonax Perfect Polish to give shiney shiney paintwork.

 

 

 

http://www.eurocarpa...chkeyword/Sonax

 

 

 

And then onto wax. This is your Last Stage Protection, LSP. There are loads and loads of waxes on the market. The one's that I have are DoDo Juice and AutoFinesse.

 

 

 

Do Do Juice can be bought in panel pots. Should be enough to do a 205 about 5 or 6 times over. They can be got off of ebay for about £7. For a dark coloured car I would do for Blue Velvet.

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3f228b7dcb

 

 

 

My favourite wax at the moment is AutoFinesse Illusion. This is the one on my 2 favourite pictures. However, at £75 a pot it's not cheap.

 

 

 

http://www.autofinesse.co.uk/illusion/

 

 

 

As always the smell of these waxes is lovely. You will be smelling stuff in the future.

 

 

 

Or you could go down the sealent route. Wax is a natural product, selants are man made.

 

 

 

The only one I have used is AutoFinesse Tought Coat.

 

 

 

http://www.autofines....uk/tough-coat/

 

 

 

It is very very easy to use. Spray onto a microfibre cloth and wipe onto the paintwork. Once it hazes buff off with another cloth.

 

 

 

AF has just started to sell a Sample Set. Small bottles of there products.

 

 

 

http://shop.autofine...&product_id=148

 

 

 

This is a very good way to get into their stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

You can easily get carried away in Detailing. Get caught up with the next best thing. I would recommend trying a few produts and see what you like. Most stuff will last you a long time. For example I have had my Zymol car shampoo for over a year. The Illusion wax I have used less that a 3rd of the jar and done quite a few cars with it.

 

 

 

If you do start reading up a line you will see alot is 'less is more'. The less product you use the more it works and easier to use.

 

 

[iPlod999 143 1 Cars]

Some of the pictures have not copied across but hopefully you get the gist.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

hmm all your links link to this thread.......... on my machine at least. anyone else see them?

 

Personally i would try to remove all the laquer with a jetwasher then you can either relacquer it or just polish it up as best you can.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Slo

[DamirGTI 341]

I'd leave the rest of the clear coat on the bodywork well alone if it's solid enough (it seems to peel mostly on roofs and bonnets) .. it really is an pain in the a***e trying to polishing/blending body panels with one piece still in clear and another in base coat - it'll never look good and you'll be just wasting your time (and possibly money , if you on for paying someone to do that for you) ... no matter how well you do the polishing you'll still be able to see the transition/breaking line in between the coats afterwards ..

 

Wetsanding the clear coat , in order to feather edge of the pealing clear coat and blend it in the basecoat , with this job you're at an high risk of burning through the paint (basecoat) .. the clear coat is much harder surface and thus it needs coarser grit paper and more sanding to feather edges on the pealing lines of the clear , opposite the basecoat is thin coat and just a few seconds of rubbing the mating line between the clear and the base will end up burning trough the basecoat (been there done that torched the T-shirth !) ... and that means will need repainting .

 

This one can only be sorted properly by masking the affected area round the entire roof line up to the solid surface (ideally following body lines , cos it'll be easier for blending afterwards) , getting rid of all the clear coat remains (all the pealing clear must go off before attempt to respray ..) sanding the entire roof surface , priming first then painting with few coats of base and then finally clear on top ..

 

To find out how well the remains of the clear still hold on to the surface - lay an strip of masking tape across the roof line closer to the peeling edges of the clear , tape it thoroughly , then tape it off slowly backwards .. if theres any loose clear on that surface the tape will lift it off .

 

D

Edited February 3, 2014 by DamirGTI

[Robbiedundy 58 4 Cars]

Painting it is not an option, thanks for all your help so far. Basically, I can't see how I can go wrong with this sander, it has 6 different speeds, I have plenty of spare panels to practice on, I just need to find some decent pads and polish. What would you's recommend? I don't want to cut into the paint as there won't be much, it's not scratched, no swirling marks, it's just flat paint. Is possible to just polish it without using abrasive polishes? (is that a thing? :L) iPlod, would you be able to get those links to work? I'll need some of that stuff. I don't mind how long it takes, good learning experience.

 

Cheers.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Dundy53

[iPlod999 143 1 Cars]

Oh dear. No idea what happened to the previous links.

 

Now sitting at home so hopefully all will be good.

 

Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs. Although, I do get a bit carried away when I get into this stuff.

 

I will list mostly Halfords stuff only as it is easy to buy off the shelf and it is pretty good entry level stuff.

 

I'll go from start to finish just incase anyone else is interested.

 

2 bucket wash.

 

When washing a car I use 2 buckets.

 

1 will have the suds in. The other with clean water. I will wash 1 panel at a time and rinse the mitt (not sponge) in the plain bucket.

 

This will help to keep lumps of grit/dirt scraping against your car giving you swirl marks.

 

 

 

This marks are not usually seen unless under a bright light or the Sun. Most are round and round and round as that is the way people wash their cars.

 

When using 2 buckets by the end of the clean the buckets will look like this:-

 

 

Right bucket suds. Left bucket rinse.

 

The buckets I use are 30 litre Bal mixing buckets. Topps tiles £3.99 each.

 

http://www.toppstiles.co.uk/tprod8762/BAL-Mixing-Bucket.html

 

 

 

I would use a lambs wool wash mitt rather than a sponge. A sponge will hold any bits of grit between the sponge and the paint work and will then mark the paint.

 

 

I use a lambswool mitt paid about £20 for it but this will probably do just as well.

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_categoryId_165609_productId_851339_langId_-1?istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istItemId=laiqwtpq&istBid=tzwt&_$$ja=cgid:8475776884|tsid:35522|cid:166296844|lid:56976641465|nw:search|crid:33910835764|dvc:c|adp:1o1|bku:1&gclid=CKK6_PDaurwCFesJwwodF0IA5A

 

Shampoo wise. A half decent one will do. I prefer not to go for the one's which have 'wax' mixed into them as these have a habit off leaving streak marks after washing and removing any previous wax you may have on your paintwork.

 

A 500 ml bottle should last for a long time if you use the correct dilution rates.

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_190120_langId_-1_categoryId_165682#tab1

 

As mentioned by GLPoomobile, clay is a must. Even after a good wash you will be surprised what is still left on your paintwork, tar deposits mostly.

 

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/categorydisplay_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_categoryId_255233_langId_-1#refinementURL=http%3A//www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd%3FcompareAvailable%3D%26catalogId%3D10151%26action%3Dlistrefine%26isRefine%3DY%26categoryId%3D255233%26langId%3D-1%26storeId%3D10001%26qcon%3Dfh_location%3D%252F%252Fcatalog_10151%252Fen_GB%252Fcategories%253C%257Bcatalog_10151_c165744%257D%252Fcategories%253C%257Bcatalog_10151_c165744_c165731%257D%252Fcategories%253C%257Bcatalog_10151_c165744_c165731_c255233%257D%252Fattr_dd0a556a%253E%257Bav_6cc3888c%257D%26fh_refpath%3Dfacet_34%26fh_refview%3Dlister%26fh_reffacet%3Dattr_dd0a556a%26channel%3Ddesktop%26fh_sort_by%3D%26fh_view_size%3D21%26mode%3Dgrid%26reqType%3DproductsAjax%26initMin%3Dnull%26initMax%3Dnull

 

It is not nessasery to get clay lube. Usually, a little shampoo mixed with water and sprayed on does the trick.

 

Clay mitts are getting good press at the moment. Not tried one but will be on my list to try soon.

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_1021399_langId_-1_categoryId_255233

 

Once clayed the car will need 2 bucket washing again.

 

Drying the car.

 

The more you touch a cars paintwork the more you will mark it. Following the above hard work it would be a shame to start marking it now.

 

A Chamois will mark the paint work like mad. Drying towels are better.

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/categorydisplay_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_categoryId_165609_langId_-1#refinementURL=http%3A//www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd%3FcompareAvailable%3D%26catalogId%3D10151%26action%3Dlistrefine%26isRefine%3DY%26categoryId%3D165609%26langId%3D-1%26storeId%3D10001%26qcon%3Dfh_location%3D%252F%252Fcatalog_10151%252Fen_GB%252Fcategories%253C%257Bcatalog_10151_c165744%257D%252Fcategories%253C%257Bcatalog_10151_c165744_c165731%257D%252Fcategories%253C%257Bcatalog_10151_c165744_c165731_c165609%257D%252Fattr_dd0a556a%253E%257Bav_ca3da6f5%257D%26fh_refpath%3Dfacet_34%26fh_refview%3Dlister%26fh_reffacet%3Dattr_dd0a556a%26channel%3Ddesktop%26fh_sort_by%3D%26fh_view_size%3D21%26mode%3Dgrid%26reqType%3DproductsAjax%26initMin%3Dnull%26initMax%3Dnull

 

 

Now maching polishing. There are 2 types of machine. A Rotary or a Dual Action, DA, polisher. A rotary will sping the pad round and round in a circle. A DA spins around in a figure of 8. A rotary will give quicker and sometimes better results. However, you can vey easily burn through your paint, taking it right off, as the pad is more concerntrated on the area you are working on.



A DA is always moving in a figure of 8 so you are less likely to get the heat build up that causes the burn through.



This is the DA I have.

 

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing-machines/das-6-pro-dual-action-polisher/das-6-pro-dual-action-polisher/prod_673.html

 

As a kit this is a very good buy.

 

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing-machines/das-6-pro-dual-action-polisher/das-6-pro-dual-action-polisher-menzerna-intro-kit/prod_720.html

 

Out of all the compounds I have used. Menzerna is easily the best. Use wise and for final results.

 

With machine polishing having hands on training is ideal. However, the Junkman on youtube have great videos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Junkman cover most if not all parts of detailing.

 

2 bucket wash.

 

 

Claying.

 

 

Detailing your engine.

 

 

Sorry got a bit carried away with the Junkman there!!

 

Now the car car is clean you need to start protecting.

 

Autoglym is not a bad entry level bunch of products.

 

Super Resin Polish is good.

 

http://www.autoglym.com/products/products/super-resin-polish

 

It contains fillers which will fill small swirls and scratches, if you have not machine polised.

 

Extra Gloss Protection is ideal over the top of this.

 

http://www.autoglym.com/products/products/extra-gloss-protection

 

I tend to go down the sealant route during the winter and waxes during the warmer summer months.

 

Sealant wise Auto Finnese Tough Coat gives good results and good value.

 

http://www.autofinesse.co.uk/tough-coat/

 

Wipe on, buff off. Very easy.

 

This was my car freshly machine polished and Tough Coat applied.

 

 

As I mentioned above in the warmer weather I prefer to play with waxes.

 

Dodo Juice panel pots are an ideal way to get into wax. Priced from £6 1 pot will cover a 205 6 - 7 times. As with most things in this game less is more. You only need apply a little of most products rather than smothering them on. 1. it is a waste. 2 the more you put on the more you have to get off.

 

My favourite wax is Auto Finesse Illusion. It goes on like butter and the final result is great.

 

 

 

At £75 a pop it is expensive. However, the jar should last me 6 years plus.

 

AF do a sample set which is a good way to try their products. For £20 it is pretty good value.

 

http://shop.autofinesse.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=148

 

 

If you want to lose yourslef in the world of detailing then http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/index.php is the place to go. There are always posts on the 'next big thing' and 'must have products'. I have tried a few bits and pieces in the 2 years or so since I started all this and have settled down into a routine I now like.

 

It can break the bank, you can get carried away. However, as this is something I can do I enjoy it.

 

I have no idea how to repair engines, take things apart or rebuild a rear beam. But...............give me a car to clean and I will give it a very good go.

[DamirGTI 341]

If repainting is not an option , then try buffing ... but be extremely careful while buffing the basecoat area on the roof (basecoat isn't meant for buffing anyway) , especially on the ends of the roof around the stepped body line - stay away from it when buffing cos otherwise you'll burn trough the paint on the edge .. buffing clear is not a problem cos it's much harder and thicker surface , can wet sand it with 1500/2000 or polish/buff .

 

For the roof area , id recommend hand buffing rather than machine buffing .. it's not so big surface and buffing it by hand theres less chances that you'll burn trough (machine buffing needs some practice) ... also , i wouldn't use that tool for buffing , you'll need an proper polishing machine with variable/adjustable speed settings and decent wool pad for initial buffing (important note : need to clean the wool pad from time to time while buffing cos the wax builds up on the pad surface and if not removed it'll progress burning trough the paint - use special tool for cleaning the pad or if you don't have one an nice big flat screwdriver will work as well ..) after the wool pad goes the waffle pad for final buffing , for removing fine scratch marks along with the scratch removing polishing compound .. when using waffle pad - lower the speed and move quicker around the panel otherwise you'll burn trough cos waffle pad cuts faster ..

For initial buffing use the finest polishing compound .. 3M makes good compounds (purple bottle by 3M , that's the finest one .. and black bottle is for scratch removing for use with waffle pad)

 

Last note , before you start but make it first ! : check what kind of basecoat is on the car , on the roof - soak an rag in cellulose thinner and try to rub just one tiny corner of the basecoat .. if it stays solid ie. if you can't remove any paint then it's 2pack paint , that one is pretty hard and can be buffed safely but then i doubt it'll be 2pack cos they don't use it for basecoat-clearcoat system .. if you can remove the paint with the rag then it'll be either cellulose or acrylic , these two are more common as an basecoat (cellulose especially) and while buffing these two be very careful ! especially with cellulose as cellulose paint layers are really light .. if it was an cheap respray there cod be just three coats of celly under the clear and this will be very easy to burn trough , use just polishing compound on the basecoat do not wet sand it with sanding paper no matter how fine grit the paper is !

 

D

Edited February 10, 2014 by DamirGTI

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Super shiny your finish might be but that paint finish is horendous look at the orange peel is it original factory paint job that?

 

 

[mowflow 67]

OP you need to do lots and lots of reading on polished bliss or through the guides on detailing world.

 

Can I ask why painting is out of the question? As the panel is such a state I would be tempted to remove anything that is loose, clean the paint, soften the edges then even get some of the spraymax 2k lacquer in a can. It might not end up looking like a pro job but it's going to look better than it currently does and it just seems to me that there's less chance of disaster compared to going at it with a sander.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Thats what i would do but use a jetwasher to remove all the areas of original lacquer that is still there first. it will just flick the lot off in one go and seeing as its a pretty flat surface theres little chance of getting runs in a new coating of lacquer