Values - Controversial

[Projectuno 7]

In light of a recent post and several recent posts following a similar theme, it would seem the topic of values is quite a controversial one.

 

Part prices for these cars are right up there with Porsche (at least from the dealers), yet complete running cars are deemed near worthless, odd.

 

Tell me I'm wrong, but if/when I do sell, I don't think I would list the car on here, despite the fact it is free, offering additional exposure to THE 'target audience'.

Don't get me wrong, the community, knowledge and support on offer here is second to none, right up there with the very best from other marques forums. In fact I would be lost at times without it. Yet upholding values and supporting fellow owners with their sale becomes a bit dog eat dog.

Maybe the temptation of breaking a car with a number of good saleable parts becomes to strong for some.

 

Agree/disagree?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Have to agree, For some reason not all but quite a few think from times of old that the car's can be run on a shoestring and are worth £500.00. One reason why I've collected 2 very early examples as the values can only go up.

[Edp 67 3 Cars]

Have to agree.

 

I've seen plenty of decent cars scrapped for parts. Seems very sad.

 

I advertised my old mi16 on here and got a buyer for the price I was happy with. I wouldn't do it again as I agree 'some' people on here seem to think a whole car is pretty much worthless.

[ginger205 1]

If your selling your car I'll give you £300 for it

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Having a look at completed listings on ebay, most don't sell for that much-

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Cars-Motorcycles-Vehicles-/9800/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=peugeot+205+gti&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

 

 

I have posted this before in other places but everyone just ignored it and carried on imagining they were selling for thousands.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Times have changed very quickly. The speculators have got in and are hoovering up "Rare" bits and listing them at inflated prices on eBay. The thing is people will pay these prices if their only involvement is sitting at home on their computers and reading forums. Those that benefit the most from communities like these are those who physically get out there and meet people and build up a network. It is the same for most car forums / clubs etc. You can still run a 205 on a relative shoestring, it depends how much time you have / desire to put the effort in. I am very lucky that I have a strong local group so bits are relatively available and also national and international connections through people I have met through events organised by the Peugeot Sport Club.

 

The rules on cars are now basically:

205 Track car - often quite tired now, Clio 172 is cheaper and quicker so not worth much

205 Mi16 - approx £1500, but more if paint is good and have the option to put a standard engine in / state of beam.

205 GTI6 - Once was shunned due to extra weight, now preferred choice over Mi16 for running costs. Lots of poor conversions & tappers

205 1.6 - lower mileage and not many bargains around. usually quite original. Cheap retro motoring - £1500+ for a runner with T&T

205 1.9 - Usually have Magnex & K&N, not many original, but more desirable £1700 - £2300 for a runner with T&T

205 Dimma - Has to be original, prices on the up, but often rot badly under the kit. Decent condition now about £5k. Period mods allowed like Mi16 and carbs. No badboy bonnets.

 

Now I am quite aware that I have just done the equivalent of kicking a hornets nest, but the prices tend to go up from there. It all depends on what 40 something finds the car they had when they were 18 and what their disposable income is and whether they want to drive it or look at it. I sat on a train with a (southern!) guy who paid £11k for a standard 1.9 with 8k on the clock as that is what he had in his 20's. I would have said more like £6k for the car. However you can soon spend a fortune in time and parts on getting it original so maybe it is a good buy if you want one and are on a 6 figure salary.

 

So if you are selling a mint 205, here may not be the best place as this some people have the shoestring mentality and access to a welder with 5 dead 205s in their yard, planning to make one good one. And fair play to those that have the time and aptitude for that. However those that like the thought of 205 ownership for sunny days and polishing with the reliability of a modern car turn to places like 4 Star classics and think they have brokered a good deal on the advertised £14k 1.9 white non sunroof with 48k on the clock and 3 years warranty which they get for £12k. The latter will actually not lose money given the current trend in the classic car market...

 

Buzzz buzzz buzzz!!

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

As everybody knows my parts contacts are quite reasonable.

 

I find on this most are not even prepared to pay a fair rate for parts.

 

This is why I don't advertise on this as much as I could.

 

So my opinion it doesn't matter if you have parts or complete cars most want something for nothing.

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

Henry I would say am a bit of a Speculator, reason for this is that activity pays for my parts collection and restoration.

 

If I didn't "speculate" you would find the dealers would throw the parts (which they do I can assure you).

 

Then who benefits from that?

[Projectuno 7]

Having a look at completed listings on ebay, most don't sell for that much-

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Cars-Motorcycles-Vehicles-/9800/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=peugeot+205+gti&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

 

 

I have posted this before in other places but everyone just ignored it and carried on imagining they were selling for thousands.

 

Am I missing something, when did eBay become the pinnacle of the used car market?

 

You think these will go for a few hundred...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/peugeot/205/peugeot-205-gti-1-9-ultra-low-miles-immaculate-full-provenance-----------------1993/1895215

 

Granted they won't go for their asking price but will hardly go for a few hundred.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Henry I would say am a bit of a Speculator, reason for this is that activity pays for my parts collection and restoration.

 

If I didn't "speculate" you would find the dealers would throw the parts (which they do I can assure you).

 

Then who benefits from that?

Yes you are and it is a good way of making a hobby self funding, which is always a very wife friendly thing Dealers do throw parts away and it is our jobs to find good homes for them. However some companies / people buy up all the old stock of something desirable and then dictate the market price. Mudflaps were the last big thing and I bet there are some people with 10 sets and drip feed one a year onto ebay to pay for a summer holiday!! It prices some enthusiasts out of the market, but this is why a 100% original car is worth so much now. What is nice to see that enthusiasts are now pooling together and getting parts remade to keep running costs down.

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

Agreed, am always willing to offer a few parts to reproduce, as a few of Mr Fenton's items were sourced by myself.

 

Lucky am single, my last few girlfriend's didn't like to take a back seat to my part searching, I do it 7 days a week.

 

Never ever found a new set of mudflaps in dealer stock as of yet.

 

I have about 5 grand of NLA parts not for sale or money making exercises, just kept for rainy days.

 

Every dealer I speak to they say am the only one asking for the old parts regularly.

 

They pretty much beg me to take the parts of there hands, especially if they have multiple quantities and I can never refuse.

 

Anybody wants to remake anything and needs a template my door is always open.

Edited January 27, 2014 by farmer

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Am I missing something, when did eBay become the pinnacle of the used car market?

 

You think these will go for a few hundred...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/peugeot/205/peugeot-205-gti-1-9-ultra-low-miles-immaculate-full-provenance-----------------1993/1895215

 

Granted they won't go for their asking price but will hardly go for a few hundred.

 

There's proof right there of what your average GTIs are selling for, what more do you want?

[Projectuno 7]

There's proof right there of what your average GTIs are selling for, what more do you want?

 

Egh, off some place where grown ups frequent.

[mowflow 67]

eBay is a bad example for car valuation. I looked through many pages of those listings and a few cars popped up as sold a few times. That tells me that cars are being listed without the true condition described, buyer shows up and find the rear end is harder than chuck Norris and the floor, inner wings, boot floor etc are like a sieve so they walk away. Anyone that does buy on eBay buys with caution if they can't view the item so prices are generally lower.

 

In terms of the forum community valuing cars. It's odd, I've always found that on other forums everyone thinks their cars are worth a lot more than they actually are where as here it's the reverse. No doubt due to the fact prices went rock bottom and are sort of on the up. One thing I do think though is that trying to sell a car to a bunch of people that already on that car is probably not the best tactic.

[mrfirepro 127 1 Cars]

I also agree, but suggest thats not a bad thing........(please be gentle with me )

 

Having committed to a restoration and being one of those described above (40 something having owned one in my teens blah, blah, blah) I believe in the free market and supply and demand, if you have something that can't be got anywhere else, then why, when you invest time and effort in searching for the parts would you not want to make a good profit. After all no one makes you buy the parts, you could try to source them yourselves, recondition old parts or just reuse second hand parts.

 

Having committed to my project I understand this principal and look on the bright side that the prices only have one direction to go and if the restoration is done well then it may eventually be worth about half of the restoration cost.

 

I also think that the high price of parts is keeping the prices for very well used cars down, and fine examples up, which seems fine to me.

 

I picked mine up for £900 and expect over the next few months to find another at this price.

 

Being on the lookout for another 205 I would disagree that eBay is the worst place (maybe for sellers), in my experience it has the most cars, which you would say are at the lower end of the spectrum, which is good for me

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

Paul the dealers wouldn't/ won't help people or they would be searching all day long.

 

These systems are only meant to be dealer to dealer.

 

The foreign dealers are very suspicious if you are not a euro zone currency, I had to butter them up substantial before they played ball.

[mowflow 67]

When I said eBay was the worst place I meant in terms of being a guide to anything's true value. If you are looking to pick up a 205 and expect to be having the usual jobs to do its good. Looking at the number of sales that fall through on ebay though it's clear a lot of people are bidding expecting the car to be in the same kind of nick as the one they sold for buttons years ago. The word "welding" scares most people.

[Anthony 1,003]

The reason why it's so hard to value these cars at the moment is that values are all over the shop.

 

You can pick up one for a few hundred quid still, or even cheaper if you get lucky, but on the other hand you've others being advertised at five figure values. The price difference can be 100x between the two ends of the market. It's a very strange situation frankly having such a spread of values, but one that I suspect has happened with many cars as they've made the transition from cheap old car into a highly desireable classic. Mk2 Golf's seem to be in this situation too.

 

There's no question that values in general are on the up, although I do personally think that peoples opinions on worth are being clouded by the odd exception car that's appearing with an equally exceptional price tag. I would personally be surprised if an average example is selling for even £2k at the moment, despite what all the asking prices on the likes of Pistonheads suggest. You've only got to notice the same cars appearing month in, month out to see that many are not shifting at the prices being asked.

 

Hard to know exactly why, but what I can say having been helping a friend out trying to find a 205 recently is that there is a lot of utter tripe out there being (mis)advertised for fairly strong money. Perhaps the selling prices on eBay aren't quite so unrealistic after all for that end of the market?

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

I’d like to make a suggestion!

 

Maybe we need to define sales people on here different to enthusiasts. (i.e. drivers status).

 

At least we'd know how to approach each other and maybe we wouldn't get our backs up when Farmer offers us a second hand item for a squillion quid!

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

Hardly ever offer 2nd hand items, as to be blunt I don't have many.

 

Please state correct facts if you are going to criticise.

 

There's a bunch of lads I quite like on this who get cheap new parts from me so I guess your just unlucky.

[lagonda 42]

Farmer, I think that was good humoured joshing from Alex....if it wasn't, I for one can confirm I'm more than happy with the price I paid you for parts I desperately needed not long ago.

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

This is a controversial thread can't beat a good old debate.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

A business sells items at a price that is justified for the market. What price Farmer can sell items at is his business (I wasn’t having a go).

I buy parts all the time at the prices Farmer sell's them , but I come on here first to see if anyone has one spare for cheap.

 

A friend would usually let you have spare parts lying around go for the justified cost of them been arsed to wrap it up and post it.

 

If I knew Farmer was a business, I'd think differently when he offered an item, something like "well at least I now know I can get the part at a cost"

Instead of "The tight get!".

Edited January 28, 2014 by ALEX

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

Am not a car part selling business, though I do own a sheep farm

 

Do you want to buy a lamb at an inflated price ??

Edited January 28, 2014 by farmer

[speno 239 2 Cars]

I've broke a few pugs and enjoyed the process (kind off )

I think the positive from my own personal experience is that you get to meet folk and put names to faces on the forum , its a great way to meet fellow puggers ^^

I dont think I would break another pug just I dont need the hassle of sitting on all the parts

hence I never sell much lately too , I'm always a bit concerned about parts what are 20+ years old and folk want 'mint' used parts

Nice way to make a bit of money , but its easy to get side tracked from your own projects too