Timing Belt Help

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

After reading a few topics on fitting a timing belt i thought i'd give it a shot.

 

I ran into the slipped pully wheel rubber problem, but managed to get one from a local guy who had one in a big box of 205 stuff.

 

So, got everything lined up/marked fitted 6mm bolts on cam wheels etc, fitted water pump, (gasket wasn't much thicker than paper).

 

The gear that came with the belt (tightening guage?) was different to what was on (eccentric?)

 

 

This was before it was stripped

 

 

This is how it sits when i eventually gave up (belts not on the crank)

 

 

 

Have i fiited this tensioner thing correctly? (the instructions weren't clear)

 

 

This is a concern, the amount of slack up the top.... but there doesn't seem to be enough slack to grab anoother tooth.

 

 

Should i be working the slack from the bottom up, or top down?

 

Do you normally need to really lever it to flip it on to the last wheel?

 

Have i fitted the tensioner thingy correctly?, i will change the odd looking long bolt when i get this buckin belt on.

 

Any tips or can anyone notice any obvious mistakes i'm making?

 

Thanks in advance. (and sorry for being a complete pest)

 

 

 

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Wrong belt and tensioner.

[welshpug 1,657]

not wrong, just different, however the earlier type is preferred.

 

what you need to do is slacken the cam pulley centre bolts, tension the belt by rotating the hub of the tensioner with an allen key till the pointer lines up with the notch, lock off the tensioner, then re-tighten the cam pulley bolts.

 

DO NOT use the locking pins to hold the cams still.

Edited January 17, 2014 by welshpug

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks both.

 

Welshpug, i'm a bit out my depth here and if i somehow upset timing etc i'll have nobody local to turn to.

 

Do the cam pulley's also have the little notch on them that i will always know where they should sit relative to the actual cam?

 

The belt i took off was 136 teeth, and the new one is 136 teeth.

 

I thought about putting the old tensioner back on, so gave it a quick clean etc, but i could feel a minor bit of play on the bearing...... and thought, i'd hate to wreck the engine further down the line by using a part that i knew should've be replaced..... hence posting on here.

 

Using your method above, what stops the cams/pulleys moving when setting the tensioner?

 

Should i be working the slack from the bottom up or top down?

 

Thanks

[welshpug 1,657]

ah, if the new belt is 136 then it shouldn't have come with that tensioner, in which case Tom is correct in that it is the wrong kit.

 

there are no marks, the cams will not move as they are pinned, however the outer section will turn and allow even tension to be applied to the belt without rotating the cams from their correct pinned position.

Edited January 17, 2014 by welshpug

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

welsh, it was all part of an SKT? kit.... all in the same box for GTI6.

 

 

If you were a betting man ..... would you put the old tensioner back on?

 

what's the best way forward for me for peace of mind? new eccentic tensioner or new belt?

 

(I can only imagine how a mechanic who doesn't know, what you know, trying to fit this in a car in a garage...... )

[welshpug 1,657]

I'd get another Kit.

 

I know this one will fit, have used a few of them.

 

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/129pc0170

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

There is nothing wrong at all with the later type of tensioner, You just need the later parts to fit it. The kit should have a 137 tooth belt. You also need to undo the cam pulley bolts to time the engine up correctly

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

There is nothing wrong at all with the later type of tensioner, You just need the later parts to fit it. The kit should have a 137 tooth belt. You also need to undo the cam pulley bolts to time the engine up correctly

Even if all the pulleys are pegged fine?

 

If so why?

[welshpug 1,657]

see my reply above.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Each belt will tension up differently, If you had 2 adjustable pulleys like the MI 16 you can adjust the belt on both sides but with one the pulleys move to adjust both sides of the belt, maybe 1 in a 1000 may go on the same way but that's the idea of the pulleys or they would not be fitted

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I'd get another Kit.

 

I know this one will fit, have used a few of them.

 

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/129pc0170

 

5hite..... will ECP take the other kit back? reinburse me 10 fags and 3 hrs booting the wall of my garage? lol , i can't remember how much it cost but i'm sure it was £70+

 

Hate to ask but I don't suppose you can point me to a suitable new suitable tensioner that can be bought on it's own?

[welshpug 1,657]

got the part number off the box?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Have i fecked up? (or them?) this is the kit i bought

 

https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/349776935/p/home

Part No.: 349776935

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I see ECP do the eccentric type tensioner kit (from SKF too)

 

Part No.: 349770575

[welshpug 1,657]

the SKF number I meant, if it is listed for a 2.0 XU the belt should be 137 teeth if it came with that tensioner.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You can see in the pic the belt has 137 on it, Instead of the bolt you just need a stud which Pug/Cit supply so problem solved with no returns

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

_{well spotted (eagle eye) Miles.... i'll check tomorrow, but i'm 90% sure i seen 136 on the new belt, (but it may have been the old one.}

 

 

 

_{Are the belts usually mega tight? or are the usuall a good fit with just tension needing brought up on them?}

Edited January 17, 2014 by dobboy

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The belt tension needs to be right, you can use the tool for it or with experience you know how tight the belts need to be, but a good guide is if the timing holes line up after rotation your on the right track

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks Miles. I asked the guy who does my works vans if he had a tool.... unfortunately not. He said, "fit/tension the belt, give the engine a couple of turns, and a good guide is that if i can turn the longest part almost flat (facing me) then i won't be far away". He also said when i've done it he will nip 'round to check for me.

 

But on this occasion I'll also your guidance on all the holes lining up.

 

When you say replace the bolt with a stud, do you refer to what i've used at the fork part of the tensioner? (if so i can make a stud from a bolt?) or are you refering to the centre of the tensioner wheel?.... because i removed a male(to block)/female (to wheel) stud?

 

I'll report back what i've got before i do anything,,,,, hopefully you good self or welsh can help...... again!

 

Can you tell me though, is it usually a tug of war with the belt or are they just simply slip over then tension?

[welshpug 1,657]

The male-female stud thing is only used by the earlier eccentric tensioner, the sprung one uses a bolt.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Welsh, i removed the male/female thingwybob.....it didn't look right...... think it sent the new type tensioner past the limits of the big plastic cover.

 

I can't believe i'm the first to have experienced this inconveinience.... i thought a timing belt change was regular standard practise on these engines?, or is it just bad luck on my part?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

All RS engined 306's use the 136 belt unless retro fitted, Never come across any, Xsara VTS from Phase 2 used the 137 kit. Belts are dead easy to fit, Try doing a 1.8 16v, they are a pain in the arse

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Miles, so WTF are ECP selling 137 kits for GTI6 RS?

 

In all honesty, i seen the second engine (which i bought) during this week whilst still in the GTI6 (which turned out to have "timing belt issues/rubber birds nest..... impact tbc).... how the feck are you guys mean to do anything with them?...... do Pug think you are all magicians?

 

 

I intend on building a wee bit of a (plug in) loom to take me from the big round plug (GTI6) to my brown plugs..... I was after the "other" side of the big round plug from the GTI6 the scrappies. WelshP told me previously the "other" side was on the NS chassis leg, but little did i know i'd be in the NS arches wrestling with plastics to get a decent bit of loom on the back of the plug.........(but i got it).

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Anybody about?

 

Right, I have a 137 belt on, the tension set at the notch, an 8mm bolt through the 1.9 pulley.

 

The holes on the cams are every so slightly out of line, I can get a 6mm bolt through if I jiggle it enough, but it feels like this is where the engine wants to sit.

 

Does this sound correct or should I keep persevering to get all lined up perfectly?

 

Thanks