Which Direction? Itbs Or Supercharging

[Gman 29]

After flogging the S2000, and an Elise SC was being lined up as my next purchase. However, a new job with a large(ish) commute (100 miles daily), meant that I bought a Passat tdi as a bit of a workhorse as I couldn't see the point of spending loads on something for work.

 

Pretty gutted to go from an Elise to a derv Passat. I also can't justify having three cars, so I've decided to spend a reasonable amount (not significant in terms of engine building) on the old Pug to make her a bit quicker as a way of lessening the pain of driving the Passat.

 

She has had a gti6 engine fitted by Miles for around 3 years now and hasn't missed a beat. I do around 5 trackdays a year and run her about most weekends. Suspension and brakes are already uprated, and whilst this has helped me to keep a lot of quicker cars at bay around a tight circuit, I would like a bit more power for the straights.

 

Options......

 

1) Second hand Lynx LB supercharger setup.

2) Cams, Colin Sachell ITBs and possibly bigger crank etc.

 

I'm not the most mechanically minded, so I think option 2 would have to be carried out by Sandy Brown. Option 1 is a bit more achievable for me, and my trusty mechanic Paul_13, who has been a star ever since I bought the car. Anthony also works in the same village as me, so I am sure I could also borrow his experience.

 

I suppose the point of this thread is firstly, what are peoples thoughts on either options for my purposes i.e. not a dedicated track car; and secondly, costs and options for going down the ITB route.

 

My head and heart is saying ITB, as I love the sound. However, my engine has had a head gasket change in the past (as advised by Miles) and I don't know if the head has been skimmed and thus may struggle to fit cams without valve clearance issues. There is a could of cammed engines for sale though, which could be used as an alternative base for the extra power.

 

Colin Sachell bodies have a good rep, but how much are you looking for including fitting and mapping? And, is it possible to go 2.1 on a budget?

 

I cannot, however, ignore 260bhp out of the box going down the Lynx route. Although as I want to keep it standard looking, is it possible to fit all the rads/intercooler etc in without butchering any of the valence? I don't mind lowering the rad and fitting slim fans etc.

 

Oh, and I must keep the power steering!

 

What would you do????

Edited December 15, 2013 by Gman

[welshpug 1,657]

leave the engine stock, satchell inlet and a mappable ecu, far cheaper than a supercharger, you'll be pretty near 200 bhp with that setup and a good bit lighter and probably more reliable and more economical than a supercharger.

 

in the real world, probably not that much slower pace wise than a supercharger.

 

 

I don't think there's many low boost cars out there that have actually made 260, most are nearer 245-250, and they don't have much torque really, a V6 engined 306 was more than a match for a low boost 306 as it had more torque nearly everywhere.

 

 

 

as you say, if the head has been off for a gasket it will have been skimmed unless a proper bodge artist did it, you can measure the head in situ, however if you want to go down the route of a larger capacity engine then getting a donor engine and slowly building that up ready to swap the bodies and ecu over would make sense.

 

DCC has a 92mm crank for sale, probably the cheapest new vital component specific to a 2.2 build

[stef205 92 1 Cars]

why limit your self to a rotrex supercharger?

[welshpug 1,657]

he's not, he's willing to go n-a too

[stef205 92 1 Cars]

must have missed that bit

[Spiky 37]

Bhp for your £ then it has to be a supercharge setup,

 

I loved both, but power difference is quite a step up from itb to sc

Edited December 15, 2013 by Spiky

[Rams_gti6 12 1 Cars]

Sort to hijack slightly but is the 'satchell inlet' welshpug refered to a throttle body setup or modified inlet of some kind?

[welshpug 1,657]

its usually a Jenvey DCOE type inlet, with far better curve and length than the off the shelf jenvey dynamics/longman inlet, proven to make 5-10% or thereabouts more power and torque, for no extra cost.

[Rams_gti6 12 1 Cars]

Ah right so it's still a whole new inlet setup not the standard one modified

[welshpug 1,657]

You use the standard inlet as a donor for the head flange and runners, and have flanges welded on then ported to suit.

[Rams_gti6 12 1 Cars]

Sounds good, done a quick search and some reading seems it's a good option to consider instead of spending thousands and full jenvey setup. His he still doing these kits, what's the rates these days never could justify the £££'s for bodies but things might change now. What's the figures like for a standard engine then?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Std engine's tend to make around 175 on the Jenvey inlet and around 185 on the longer inlet, that's what I have found on quite a few conversions now on my local RR which are not known for high figures.

I don't like the charged one's, I'd say the 8v TT conversion would run rings around one and being allot lighter too as I like having torque.

 

You can keep the PS no matter which way you go

[Rams_gti6 12 1 Cars]

Is that at the crank or wheels figure

[Batfink 201]

Supercharged 205's are hilariously fast but n/a sounds better

[Spiky 37]

Agree with batfink, when you are 4 or just under seconds to 60 and 100 under 10 seconds, these are not slow cars

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

ITB's for the noise and throttle response IMO.

 

My internals are standard and I'm happy enough. I think the money on cams would be better spent on a diff personally.

[Mad Scientist 106]

Itbs all the way!

 

'Charging is cheating!

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Agree with batfink, when you are 4 or just under seconds to 60 and 100 under 10 seconds, these are not slow cars

 

That can't be what your car is doing?!

[Spiky 37]

sadly for other cars, thats exactly what my car is doing, with videos to prov too

 

116 @ 12:88 at santa pod, and thats only launching at 3000 rev's

 

 

1:19.30 around coombe

 

it's no slouch dude

[welshpug 1,657]

respectable but not that quick when a 106 giving away 30+ bhp is quicker, on road tyres...

 

I know of one that will match those 1/4 times with not even 200 bhp, and it was road legal, but probably a lot lighter than your 205.

[Spiky 37]

yeah the green 106 (forgot his name) is doing 1:16, he can properly peddle, but this is me ( IT worker) on a track day, enjoying myself,

 

not many cars overtake me

[allye 530 3 Cars]

sadly for other cars, thats exactly what my car is doing, with videos to prov too

 

116 @ 12:88 at santa pod, and thats only launching at 3000 rev's

 

 

1:19.30 around coombe

 

it's no slouch dude

 

 

Holy s*itballs! Fair play mate.

 

I wonder what 260bhp and 230ft/lb+ is going to be like

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

 

I wonder what 260bhp and 230ft/lb+ is going to be like

 

Depends who's driving.

[Gman 29]

I don't mind buying a spare engine and slowly building it up if I was to go down the larger capcity route. However, what sort of cost am I looking at?

 

There is a complete cammed and Jenvey TB engine on DTA management going on the 306 forum for 2,300. For ease, I'm tempted to go for that but would have preferred to use Satchell bodies due to the inlet length.

 

Miles, how easy is it to keep the power steering with SC or ITB?

 

I still need it to be reliable, so if charging isn't, then that makes it an easier decision!

[dcc 855]

I am sure Phil (pip470?) was running 12.8 @ santa pod, he had a gti6 on carbs iirc, but hsi was kitted up purely for the strip, so prob a bit lighter than your car Steve.

 

Impressive times eitherway for pushing a mid 80's brick as fast as it will go in 400m!

 

I am personally loving my 1.9 8v on bodies