Broken Block :-(

[James Cornell 10]

I have just done a head rebuild/cam belt/water pump after a head gasket failure and I tried the imfamous "lets put the head bolt in without the spacer" and now I have fully rebuilt the engine I put the coolant in (as the last job typically) and the coolant is just pissing out from the water pump area. I thought it was the hose that connects the metal pipe to the back of the engine so Darren at Spooxs (legend) managed to sort out a new pipe for me today and I refitted it and it is still gushing out and it looks like it is coming from behind the waterpump which leads me to believe it is a cracked water jacket...

 

What I wanted to know is whether anyone has done this and if it is repairable (I doubt it)

 

Failing this what would be the best approach to sorting the problem?

 

I think my options are to strip my bottom end and swap over with a new block (118K engine it is probably not worth it)

 

Buy a built bottom end and put my head and new water pump etc on to it (hint hint if anyone has one lying around)

 

Or just buy a new 8V 1.9 engine and break mine to try and recover some of my losses

 

Also are the 1.6 blocks interchangeable with the 1.9 or are they taller??

 

As you can guess I am really losing the will the live with this car at the moment as it has been up on stands for 5 weeks now!

[welshpug 1,661]

Iirc a few on here have repaired this kind of damage, i think one method was a machined plug araldited in, and another was the piece tig welded back in.

 

Either will need the water pump removing, ideally the engine removing from the car for ease of access.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Easy ish fix this, I have used some Wurth Ally putty which when set can be machined to give you an idea of strength along with a Plug.

 

Never TIG weld the blocks as this can cause all sorts of issues

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

I did a temporary repair for a friend that happened to be left like it for years but i used http://www.amazon.co.uk/Winplus-6002ACRYLIC-Quiksteel-Epoxy-Putty/dp/B002UIZPPU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384811101&sr=8-1&keywords=quik+steel#productDetails,i wound the back left headbolt out,fitted the spacer,drained the cooling system,cleaned the hole up so it was spotless and put this in the hole then did the head bolt back up,waited for it to set,removed the waterpump and got the bits out,built it back up and it was fine.Obviously not an ideal fix but was asked to get the car going for him and it did work perfectly and lasted fine.

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Chemical metal does the job. We fixed a friends block with it in the early 2000s, still going strong now.

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

+1 for chemical metal

 

Fixed a cam carrier casing after a shim cracked it.

 

http://www.belzona.co.uk/prod1k.aspx

[DamirGTI 342]

Also had this issue , fixed it with Loctite Hysol 3479 aluminum epoxy .

 

Any reasonable quality epoxy metal will do the job nicely ... just take your time and prep the surface thoroughly prior to filling with the epoxy .

 

D

[petert 588]

+1 for Belzona. It is the Rolls Royce of putties. It is the only stuff guaranteed not to fall out of an inlet port.

[James Cornell 10]

Thank you all for the input, I am feeling a bit better about getting this fixed now.

 

I was just wondering if any of you have done this with the engine still in the car?

 

Also with regards to pugdamo, when you put the epoxy in, did you just "squirt" it down the head bolt hole?

[welshpug 1,661]

squirt it down the hole?

 

 

 

[James Cornell 10]

I have just had a word with Daren and given my lack of time at the moment he is going to get a decent low mileage "short engine" for me so I will start stripping mine down now. Shame really I have just put 5l of new oil into my engine...

[James Cornell 10]

Probably a silly question but do I need to remove the drive shafts? I am planning to strip the head from the block first (removing everything I will need to salvage for the new build) and then taking the block out (by hand as I have no lift)

 

Looking at the engine there seems to be a mount on the gearbox and two on the engine (one on the head and one at the back of the block) what I am thinking is, would it be possible to simply unbolt the engine block from the gearbox (leaving it bolted to the engine mount with a stand supporting it's weight) and the remove the block without disturbing the box and the shafts?

[welshpug 1,661]

far less work to repair your current block, especially given all the work you have only just recently completed.

 

yes you do need to remove the driveshafts.

[James Cornell 10]

Seems a shame you are right but it is getting a lit long in the tooth and if I can get a lower mileage bottom end and it is guaranteed (within reason) I think it would make me sleep better at night.

 

The other thing I have not considered is that I never had my block skimmed so I think it really needs to come out either way...

[welshpug 1,661]

118k is nowhere near long in the tooth, I am on 166k and pulling as strong as ever.

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Yeah the engine was still in the car,just slackened off the head bolt,cleaned around the hole and put the putty in,its like plasticine just mix it up push it in the hole then do up the headbolt,took about half an hour to clean and fix the hole,then i would say to remove the water pump to get out the bits that had fallen in around the water pump.

As welsh says thats no mileage,mine is on 158k still going strong,loads out there with big mileage.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

To repair the block with belzona or similar will take a couple of hours at the most. Changing the engine is at least full days work and that is when you have all the tools and equipment to hand and have done it before. I would thoroughly clean the area and use putty if I were you.

[James Cornell 10]

Sorry if I am asking the obvious but how (given the only access to the damaged area that I have seen is down the head bolt bore) do you put the putty in? Did you just push it down the hole? If so how do you avoid getting the putty in the thread?

[welshpug 1,661]

Look at the pictures i posted, you do not need to remove the head or the bolt, only the water pump.

[James Cornell 10]

Ok I will try that and see if it will fill the hole, would you suggest having the head skimmed as I have replaced the head gasket without a skim (I thought these were cast heads and didn't need a skim

[welshpug 1,661]

they are cast.

 

cast alloy

 

 

even if it was cast iron, they can be skimmed.

 

 

 

tbh now its all together you have nothing to lose but to run it and see what happens after you fix the hole in the water pump housing.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I'm surprised that daren hasn't suggested it, At the end of the day £15.00 wurth of putty is worth a shot compared to hundreds on a unknown engine which are ****** hard to find and if you do not cheap at all

[James Cornell 10]

Fair point welshpug!

 

tbh Daren was really dead against it, he had a real downer on people patching the blocks with epoxy

 

I need to get the water pump off and see how bad the hole is...

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Worth asking Constella for their views

[MikeC 10]

Sometimes you don't need to skim the head, you could check it with a steel rule. I checked my own on a milling machine with a dial gauge, and it was sound.