Oil Cooler Needed For Light Track Use?

[stuart 31 3 Cars]

I'm doing a track day at oulton park in a couple of weeks and am wondering if I should fit an oil cooler?

I have a mocal cooler from my rally car (without thermostat) but as this car is usually only used for the road if I can get away without it.

 

The car is on toyo T1Rs and mintex m1144 pads so I am only planning on doing 5 lap stints (including warm up / cool down laps). Oil will probably be changed before / after for peace of mind.

 

Just after other peoples opinions on it really.

 

Cheers

Stu

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

What engine is it? If it's an mi you defo want one IMO, hot oil + tired lifters = death! anything else you'll probably be ok if you've got an ally sump fitted. I'd always run one to be honest but if it's a one off its probs not worth the hassle. What oil you running? Maybe some 10/50 or 60 might be a good idea if you're changing it before hand??

Once youve got the grasp of the circuit I'm sure you'll manage more than 5 laps on m1144s.

[oak tree garage 1 1 Cars]

think you would be best to run with cooler much safer . my hillclimb car doesnt have one but after one run oil is getting rather hot . on the road oil temp not an issue .

better to be safe than sorry . if you dont fit one keep an eye on that oil temp guage .

[Anthony 1,003]

If you're only doing just five laps of a typical UK circuit then you'll likely be OK without IMO, particularly with the low-ish ambient temperatures at this time of year.

 

That said, if you have one spare then I think I'd be tempted to fit it anyway if it's a 16v.

 

For what it's worth, I have not personally needed an oil cooler on track days that I've done in 8v 205's - I tend to find that by the time the oil is starting to get hot enough for oil pressure to be starting to drop off (usually 3/4 ish on the oil temp gauge, around 120 degrees) then I've usually been out for 20+ minutes and the (road) tyres, brakes and driver are all past their best and I return to the pits.

 

Not to say that an oil cooler wouldn't have been beneficial, but like in your case, they were road cars first and foremost and an oil cooler is unnecessary (and without an oil stat arguably undesirable, particularly in winter) for typical UK road use.

[stuart 31 3 Cars]

Its an Mi which was rebuilt about 5000 miles ago but the lifters were just stripped and cleaned. It does have a gti6 sump and oil pump though.

 

Its a daily driver hence not being keen on fitting the cooler, especially with it not being the thermostat type.

 

I've got a bit of silkolene pro s 10w 50 on the garage, so might just get some more of that and hope for the best

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

I had exactly your setup and found I needed an uprated oil cooler. For my GTI6 engine now I have a 16 row mocal cooler and the oil temp never gets above the 4th line and it works a treat.

 

Previously after 15 minutes of Brands Hatch Indy circuit, the light would be on and the pressure way down.

 

A definite if you ask me.

[stuart 31 3 Cars]

What grade oil was that with?

[petert 586]

You'll do more damage without an oil cooler than you will with one, guaranteed.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Oil cooler is a must IMO on an mi, bigger the better

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Further to this, anyone know if the std 1.9 oil cooler assembly bolts straight onto a Vts/Gti6 engine?

 

I assume its just a case of removing the original modine (water/oil) cooler?

 

Obviously siting of the core will be more of a suck it and see exercise.

 

 

Cheers for any info

[rallyeash 155]

I've seen 140 degree on a mates 306 gti6 on track after about 5 laps with no cooler! Suprised it actually didn't go bang!

 

In my opinion fit one.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Further to this, anyone know if the std 1.9 oil cooler assembly bolts straight onto a Vts/Gti6 engine?

 

I assume its just a case of removing the original modine (water/oil) cooler?

 

Obviously siting of the core will be more of a suck it and see exercise.

 

 

Cheers for any info

It'll depend which style of sandwich plate it uses. The standard coolers are fairly crap in my experience mind.

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Mmmm typical French then?

 

several variations.....!

 

How would you tell?

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

let's go motor racing... then yes, the oil as we all know needs to be kept within a certain temperature range for it to remain oil... Anthony has good point about ambient UK temps atm, but nonetheless, cooked oil is not as good as "hot oil" - not sure about the 1.6Gti heated oil/water exchanger but the 1.9Gti item is perfectly fine as it's a true cooler, think the main issue is the cooler needs to be in the direct airstream even though this makes it much more vulnerable... again as we all probably know or should know, high oil pressure is irrelevant, it's got nothing to do with anything... much more important to have consistent pressure. Oil cooler and fresh oil with a little mechanical sympathy - i.e. finesse behind the wheel and all should be okay.

 

 

Mmmm typical French then?

 

several variations.....!

 

How would you tell?

 

A million times better than anything typically British then?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Mmmm typical French then?

 

several variations.....!

 

How would you tell?

Yep 2 different ones afaik, have a look in my old wanted thread for the pics

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=144223&hl=%2Boil+%2Bcooler

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Yep 2 different ones afaik, have a look in my old wanted thread for the pics

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=144223&hl=%2Boil+%2Bcooler

 

Oh Cock........

 

Guess which I have!!

 

No chance of fitment with PAS then, Bugger...

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Mine was to go on a pas equipped 8 valve not a gti6, I was just trying to show you the different coolers. Pas pump sits up high on the 6 engine so they both might fit?!g

[stuart 31 3 Cars]

Seems to be the most sensible option to fit it then, even if I remove it again afterwards. I don't want to kill it for the sake of an hour or twos work.

 

Any recommendations for oil? I'm not keen on spending £60+ on oil just for the day, ot until the car comes off the road at the end of Nov.

[rallyeash 155]

I just run a 10 40 and have always done

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

I run comma 5w50 fully synth Motorsport stuff in my track car,rally car and charged car. sure it's less than £30 for 5 litres

[petert 586]

15w-50 here.

[stuart 31 3 Cars]

Thanks for the recommendations guys, as it's not the middle of summer and will only be doing 5 laps or so at a time I'll fit the cooler and stick to 10w 40.

[petert 586]

If your're in doubt, here's some data from the weekend, running a 13 row cooler. It was a 5 lap supersprint. Ambient temp 21. The trace in green was my son's first run. His max temp was 107. My first run (blue) was straight after and a maximum of 117. The temperature is taken at the outlet of the oil cooler, not the sump. You can see that the oil temp never recovers.

 

In summary, 13 row is adequate for a 5 lap sprint, but not really for any more. Oil pressure also drops with the temperature increase. I'll post that later. There's no way I'd take an Mi on the track without a cooler.

[petert 586]

Here's some data from our supersprint yesterday, mapping oil pressure (green) and oil temp (orange). It was hot day, approx 36. The oil temp climbed off the scale (120 deg) after just two laps. Notice how the oil pressure slowly decreases by an average of approx 10psi over time, 50 down to 40. Most interesting, is the dip in oil pressure at around the 480 mark. The cursor on the graph corresponds to the cursor at the start of turn 2 (left hander). At the exit of turn three the oil pressure is now 29psi. This means our 1.5 quart accumulator didn't have time to reload in that time. It was the only time we saw <40 the whole day but it only takes one turn to kill an engine. My son went on to win the class but we'll definitely be fitting a larger oil cooler before the next event and possibly dry sumping as well.

Edited November 9, 2013 by petert

[stuart 31 3 Cars]

Interesting to see actual data of how temps affect pressure etc.

 

Really glad I fitted the cooler in the end as on track the oil temp still went way higher than it's ever been. Even still the pressure never dropped below the last white mark in the gauge and more importantly the engine survived That was with shell helix 10w 40 semi synthetic.

 

I managed around 10 laps at a time before the tyres had enough but oil and coolant temps remained stable after about 4.

Ambient temps were only around 8 I'd say so in the summer a bigger cooler / better oil would probably be needed.

 

Thanks again for the advice, almost certainly prevented me from killing my engine!

Edited November 9, 2013 by stuart