Suspention Turret Position

[m@ttc 30]

hi i'm in the middle of positioning my drivers side turret, and my question is how important is the turrets angle? i know its in all the right positions as it has always been fitted like thus

 

 

 

so all i need to know is how important is it? i ask this as i have a 205 diesel as a daily driver and have done the following check on this. (please excuse the drawing but might help explain better).

 

 

 

ive used ball bearings in the holes ontop of the turrets and taperd washers to sit a sraight edge onto. now im no expert but id imagine at point A the distance from the straight edge to the turret top should be greater than at point B? Now what i have found on my diesel 205 is the that on the left turret the distance difference between A and B is 1mm. And on the right turret the distance difference between A and B is 5mm. Clearly sitting at diffent angles, no? so is it normal and noting to worry about as long as its within 5mm say when doing my project car. Or is it important and my diesel could have had a bang some time in the past?

 

anyway i hope this all makes sense and hope someone can put my mind at rest. thank you.

[welshpug 1,655]

you don't want to be measuring at the holes, as doming of the strut tower and the strut top plate is very common (hence the strengthening plates sold for rallying)

 

specifically what angle they should be I have no idea, nor any idea how to find out.

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

A jig diagram? Would that help?

[Emmy Seize 8]

_{I just went into the garage to measure the original Celette jig-set.}

 

_{It seems, the 5mm difference between A and B is how the turrets are supposed to be angled.}

Edited September 9, 2013 by Emmy Seize

[m@ttc 30]

ive been looking at the jigging data here

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a429/mattc205/205bodydimentions1001.jpg

but its not really helping or i am missing some thing, what it does show, is one of the holes on the strut tower is used on the jig, but like i say i might be missing something.

on the bottom of the page in the photo it reads ''celette and cetak alignment systems are also available for the 205'' (altho it dont show it in this piticular photo)

[m@ttc 30]

_{I just went into the garage to measure the original Celette jig-set.}

 

_{It seems, the 5mm difference between A and B is how the turrets are supposed to be angled.}

thats really helpfull to know do you have anymore information? where to measure too and from? must say i have started to weld in the inner wing panel to the strut tower and ive set it to the oposite strut tower. so it would be wise to stop now and get it right before i carry on welding this up, many thanks. matt.

Edited September 9, 2013 by m@ttc

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

Your just right taking your time now rather than discovering your pride and joy wont handle like it should.

 

Whats the angle difference like on your GTi? (you'd only mentioned the diesel up above) If the angles are similar and both tops are flat, then the best you can do is check for 1016mm (+/- a few mm) between the two datum holes in the turrets? (Ref your jig data above). This is also assuming all's correct with your passengers side turret to begin with.

[welshpug 1,655]

That's excellent info! I need similar to "adjust" my 205, as the left hand chassis leg is over a little in front of the suspension mountings, still drives straight but wing and headlamp and bonnet alignment are all over the place!

[m@ttc 30]

Your just right taking your time now rather than discovering your pride and joy wont handle like it should.

 

Whats the angle difference like on your GTi? (you'd only mentioned the diesel up above) If the angles are similar and both tops are flat, then the best you can do is check for 1016mm (+/- a few mm) between the two datum holes in the turrets? (Ref your jig data above). This is also assuming all's correct with your passengers side turret to begin with.

that's the point of this thread to find out the angle of the drivers side turret for the gti as i don't know it yet. It was the only position that was able to change when i removed the inner panel. They measure different on the diesel and emmy sieze says that's how the should be. Im unable to check this measurement on the gti.

thanks for your help guys

[m@ttc 30]

you don't want to be measuring at the holes, as doming of the strut tower and the strut top plate is very common (hence the strengthening plates sold for rallying)

 

lets presume all 205's have domed as said then this angle car'nt be that important can it, because the doming would effect this angle, and you don't hear many complaints about it effecting anything?

 

Edited September 10, 2013 by m@ttc

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

that's the point of this thread to find out the angle of the drivers side turret for the gti as i don't know it yet. It was the only position that was able to change when i removed the inner panel. They measure different on the diesel and emmy sieze says that's how the should be. Im unable to check this measurement on the gti.

thanks for your help guys

I know, but you can still check your GTi's passengers turret with the straight edge method. Any slight movement of the straight edge over at the drivers side will have very little impact on the angle your measuring at the passengers side. According to emmy's jig measurement, you'd expect to see the 5mm difference on your passengers side. Would just be extra confirmation thats all. Plus would let you see if your drivers side matched.

 

That jig diagram is excellent, (saved it for my own reference earlier) but without a centre line the best you can do is check for the full 'side to side' measurements at strut tops and sub frame mount holes. Thats another reason why I suggested offering your sub frame up now as it may help maintain the correct width, while you try to set the chassis leg height.

[m@ttc 30]

when i checked the diesel with this method they wernt the same, one turret had a 1mm drop and the other a 5mm drop. i appeciate the tops can be domed, but still i thought maybe they might be differnt for a reason?

 

so is it the general consensus that all i have to do is set the drivers side turret exactly the same as the passengers and everything will or should ok then?

 

I know it all may sound silly and thats what i would have expected i'd have to do to put everything back together. but want to make sure as i really dont know and obviously dont want to balls it all up now. Thanks. matt.

[Emmy Seize 8]

i thought maybe they might be differnt for a reason?

 

 

Thought about that as well.

 

So I went into the Garage to check the other part of the jig plus used the straight edge method on the car.

 

The left hand jig is the same as the right hand side one.

 

The car has even readings on both sides, not a trace of doming in sight.

 

An idea: If you have a fully adjustable strut brace at hand, install it on a car that is known to be straight and tighten all screws.

 

Then remove the strut brace and use it as a jig on your car.

 

 

And no, it doesn't Sound silly to think about things and take care when putting a car together, especially one that is supposed to travel at great Speeds.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Emmy Seize

[m@ttc 30]

thats great thank you very much, thats officially my mind at ease now

i forgot i still had these lying around.

 

 

so i have been measuring these turrets to the top of the subframe mounting bolts and they too measure the same left and right.

so i guess all is well and i can carry on with the project with out any doubt. so thank you all again

Edited September 10, 2013 by m@ttc

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

Your very thourough in your method Matt. The little car is in capable hands and I'm looking forward to more progress!

 

The strut brace idea is a good one too, but if you dont have one, then you could make up something simple to maintain the 1016mm between the two bolt holes as shown in your jig dimension diagram. Just for confirmation, I checked my own last night and it's bob on 1016mm.

 

Good luck!

[m@ttc 30]

I don't have a strut brace but that measurement hasn't changed checked last night, and i now have a plan on how to continue

thanks davy.