Modifying Wishbones

[dirtdog 4]

I have been trying to find out about this for a while now and getting no results. I have messaged 'allenallen' and not had a reply back after reading a topic of his mentioning him welding a nut and bolt onto the end of the arm and using that (IIRC) instead of a balljoint?

 

I don't want fully adjustable arms that cost 400 quid (extortionate) ...but I also don't want to pay 60-70 a wishbone/arm for pattern parts. I think I remember reading that the materials to make the balljoint replaceable cost around 40 quid, but there is some chopping and welding to be done.

 

 

 

If anybody can share any information on this topic it would be much appreciated. I'm not the most clued up as ive never really experienced anything like this before so ...please be gentle

 

Thank you

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

I still don't understand how as a team of intuitive people, we have not found out the exact spects of the ball joint in order to make them replaceable.

 

I have 2 sets of arms here that need BJ's but I'm reluctant to sling them as I know a cure is just round the corner.

 

I'm going to contact Peugeot Technical tomorrow.

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

I still don't understand how as a team of intuitive people, we have not found out the exact spects of the ball joint in order to make them replaceable.

 

I have 2 sets of arms here that need BJ's but I'm reluctant to sling them as I know a cure is just round the corner.

 

I'm going to contact Peugeot Technical tomorrow.

 

Good luck with that, they never want to know !

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

The thread is this one

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=149649

 

In case it isn't clear, they were a joint effort between Allan and I. I machined the arms and welded the sleeves to the arms.

 

I think the crux is really that if you have a milling machine, lathe, TIG welder and the balls to do it then these can be DIY. Otherwise you are paying the going rate of £400 or whatever for someone else to do the work for you, the cost going someway to compensate for the liability risks. The main stumbling block is the liabilty issue in the event of failure of a modified suspension arm, I'm happy to navigate in a car with the arms made by me, and I'd be happy to put them on my own road car, but I would not be happy to sell them to someone else, who could have a serious accident due to poor fitting or damage or 30k miles without so much as a spanner check or numerous other influences outside my control, all of which could see me in court.

 

If it were just as simple as pressing a new joint in or whatever then we'd all have been doing it long ago. Otherwise you are into machining and fabrication work on an existing component which leads to a substantially modified part in place of a standard one designed and tested by the manufacturer.

 

Finally really I'd say stop being so tight! The wishbones from Motaquip or whatever are decent enough value in my eyes, I know I certainly could not make one for £60!

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

I enquired about the motaquip arms they are NLA now also so the dealer said.

[welshpug 1,656]

Plenty of others making arms (std replacement that is), and the o.e bush kit is still available at £25 or so.

 

Compbrake still do theirs at £250 odd iirc, but they arent as strong as the o.e arm nor do they clear the std arb still afaik.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

It's alright saying we should find a ball joint that fits but has anyone managed to actually press a ball joint out? I've tried several times with no joy.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Cybernck did from memory

[minimaniacwhyard 17]

im sure that i read somewhere about a bloke using a Renault one scenic think cant remember exactly. i would be interested in this as well

[309jazzpanda 41]

Using a megane/scenic ball joint could work but again it means chopping bits of arm and creating a hybrid of the two. Alternative could be to purchase rose joints and make your own if you are going down the "make your own" route

[stef205 92 1 Cars]

It's alright saying we should find a ball joint that fits but has anyone managed to actually press a ball joint out? I've tried several times with no joy.

Yes thank you i have pushed one out the dont really push out as to sheer out! I had a idea on a 106 ball joint but the material on the arm would be insufficient. A 106 joint is much wider in diameter than the 205/309 joint.

 

 

Since then i have really abandoned that idea and opted for the rose joint option.

 

My progress has been some what slack but they should work.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

That's not all of it out though is it smarty pants?

 

Good effort on the roseys

[stef205 92 1 Cars]

That's not all of it out though is it smarty pants?

 

Good effort on the roseys

well yes it is the rest is part of the arm! plus i was just going to mill the rest out, ha Gives you a idea tho

Edited September 8, 2013 by stef205

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Got you, no wonder I've never been able to part one then!

[205wrc 16]

Replaceable spherical joint arms have been done......tried in competition, checked and they've been fine. It can only be done to Non-genuine arms though as there is more material in the bottom ball joint to allow for machining. I have photos available of the work and prices etc. Obviously, it will be cheaper to modify a set of customers own arms than to supply a set of new ones, but it is a cheaper option than a fully adjustable rose jointed set...

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Don't know if this helps, but I just got these two part numbers from the BJ's on some arms I have.

 

Clean one is a Q-Drive and the other I don't know what brand it was supplied as.

 

 

 

Wonder if ringing Delphi would get us onto the right track?

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

And this one is OE (I think)

 

[welshpug 1,656]

Replaceable spherical joint arms have been done......tried in competition, checked and they've been fine. It can only be done to Non-genuine arms though as there is more material in the bottom ball joint to allow for machining. I have photos available of the work and prices etc. Obviously, it will be cheaper to modify a set of customers own arms than to supply a set of new ones, but it is a cheaper option than a fully adjustable rose jointed set...

How much meat is required? I have possibly half a dozen wishbones to choose from, whats the cost inc the drop pins?

 

I can get dan to drop them off for me, save the postage.

[205wrc 16]

I'll find out for you. Meanwhile, the pics are here.... http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=135851&hl=spherical&do=findComment&comment=1223649

[DamirGTI 342]

Will be doing this as soon as i sort out my funds ..

 

Over here , there's a few machinist (with an gray hair and glasses !) who specialized in suspension components overhaul . Kinda dying profession/job though .

 

I've asked around which one of them is best quality/repair durability wise , and give him a call .

He said to me that he just press out the OE ball pin , machine the hole on the wishbone and make an threaded ridge on the top of the wishbone . Then , makes new ball pin with some kind of top hat over the ball pin and install the ball pin assembly back on the wishbone screw on type . In addition , adds an grease nipple on the bottom side of the ball joint .

 

He also mentioned that when the ball joint wears out again , he supplies new ball joints which are then replaced just by means of unscrewing the old worn joint off the wishbone and screw on the new joint .

 

D

Edited September 8, 2013 by DamirGTI

[NFS 32]

So looking at Allenallens thread you would need something like this?

 

http://www.mcgillmotorsport.com/3-4-x-3-4-right-hand-male-xmr12-ultra-high-performance-36/

http://www.mcgillmotorsport.com/3-4-x-3-4-left-hand-male-xml12-ultra-high-performance-51/

 

still tube with the thread cut into it

 

and some sort of roll pin, where can one of these be sorced?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

No point using left handed thread rose joints, just means you'll need a LH tap as well. They're not 'on car' adjustable or anything.

You need to take extra care when welding the bosses to the arms as you can easily melt through and damage the thread if you don't watch your job.

Drop pins will need to be custom made although I believe AB sell a set but they ain't cheap.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I enquired about the motaquip arms they are NLA now also so the dealer said.

These were still available from Motaquip recently, we got one for Kezzers car & they are still showing as available on the motaquip ecat today;

 

 

The GTI (1.6 & 1.9) needs the VSA532/533 but a few people have found the balljoints to be rubbish recently.

 

Eurocarparts did sell ecap ones which afaik were the oe suppliers but last time I looked they were out of stock.

 

g

[MikeC 10]

G, are the Delphi ones any good?

Edited September 20, 2013 by MikeC

[DamirGTI 342]

I had a few pair of Delphi bones , not bad value for the money really .

 

Bushes aren't as good as OE (well neither one of the aftermarket ones aren't anyway .. slap on the OE bushes and job done) , surprisingly the balljoints lasted for quite a long time , much longer than TWR bones which i had previously .

Need to mention that the roads over here are a bit crappy ! loads of potholes for trashing the balljoints , and thus i always had them failing first whilst the bushes where still in "good" state .

 

However , they're a little bit shorter than OE bones (roughly 1/1.5mm if i remember) .. so you'll probably need to re-adjust the alignment afterwards , at least i had .. it was visible to the naked eye by the steering wheel being out of center after fitting them .

 

D

Edited September 21, 2013 by DamirGTI