Can't Get Gears

[mech205eng 11]

Iv just tried to move my 205 gti6 under its own power for the first time. Its fitted with a 1.9 be3 box. When on axle stands the car would go into gear and through them all absolutely fine, although it did grind when trying reverse. When on the floor with engine switched off if you put it in gear it will stop it rolling and if you then dip the clutch it will freely roll....But with the engine started and clutch pressed it wont go in any forwards gear, and grinds if you try reverse. If you start it up in gear and with clutch pressed it will roll away. To sum up, clutch works with engine off and works when car is in the air but doesn't work when engine is running and car is on the floor

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Have you tried tightening up the clutch cable if its adjustable. How high is the clutch pedal in relation to the brake pedal they should be level(ish)

[mech205eng 11]

That was the first thing I tried, after every few turns of the nut I got back in and tried it, adjusted it right up as far as it would go, no different, apart from the pedal felt worse

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

and the pedal height?

[mech205eng 11]

just been out for a look, the clutch pedal is quite a bit higher than the brake pedal, 1 - 2 inch higher

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

nothing wrong with the cable then did you originally have a be1 box by any chance?

[mech205eng 11]

no same box, just brand new cable and brand new bx 16v clutch

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

what about the release bearing? a common error is to use the bearing that comes with the clutch but it doesnt push the clutch pressure plate springs in far enough to release, did you re use your original one?

[mech205eng 11]

no I used the new one that came in the kit, I will have binned my original. Is that what it'll be? how come I can go through the gears when the cars on axle stands?

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

no resistance, does your front wheel/s turn slowly in neutral on the axle stands. Don't take the release bearing suggestion as gospel it could be something else but its likely to be that did it look identical to the old one? They all look similar but are different thicknesses/width due to what type of release arm is used. ie you have a bx 16v release bearing inside a 205 box i dunno if they are the same gearbox gods on here will confirm this for you

Edited September 1, 2013 by Slo

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Get a lamp and someone to work the gears, make sure the linkages Are not fouling anything on full throw. Particularly neart the manifold/down pipe/subframe. Best jack it up and get underneath to look too

[welshpug 1,661]

Friction plate on back to front.

[mech205eng 11]

the linkages are all fine. you can tell its a clutch problem. if you try and push it into a gear with engine running and clutch pressed it will pull forward ever so slightly, as if its trying to go in. welshpug is that just a suggestion or is it a likely explanation for whats wrong? im sure its on right way but don't want to take gearbox off just to check

[mech205eng 11]

slo i dont think the wheels turn in neutral but il check. i changed the clutch a while ago and cant remember comparing the release bearings. can anyone else back this up?

[welshpug 1,661]

Ma ones have different height but not be, even then its only 2mm which can be made up with adjustment.

[mech205eng 11]

an update on this, I took the gearbox off this weekend. As I thought i'd put the clutch on correctly, the friction can't go on back to front, it would foul on the flywheel bolts. I measured the bx release bearing and it is about 2mm smaller than a 205 bearing. I put a 205 bearing in and put the gearbox back on. Still doesn't work! Not happy at all now because I can't think what it can be

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Have you double double checked the linkages as per my comments above?

 

I had the same issue not long back and it took a lot of faffing with my wife changing gears with me under the car to realise its the long linkage in the transmission tunnel just touching the manifold.

[Roon 29 1 Cars]

Agree with linkages.

 

Has the same issue. Get someone to work the box while you see if it fowls.

 

Good luck with it

[mech205eng 11]

I have a satchshift and it doesn't foul, I can put it into all the gears with engine turned off, It goes beautiful into all the gears

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Must be a faulty pressure plate then or something somewhere along the clutch cable is bending rather than pulling the cable through.

[mech205eng 11]

Next job tomorrow hopefully is to take the cable back off and compress the clutch arm as far as it will go then try the gears, just to rule out the cable, it is a new cable but a non genuine one.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Can't see it being anything to do with the cable since it is adjusting up way beyond the level of the brake pedal. Check where it enters the pedal box that its mounted in the hole properly and not pulling through. When the box was off did you inspect the release arm mechanism to see if its bent or bending under pressure? What about the plastic bearings top and bottom any play there? It's a pretty simple clutch there's only so much that can be/go wrong with it.

 

Not overlooking the obvious you have got oil in the box haven't you?

Edited September 8, 2013 by Slo

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Mine selected gears without the engine too, but running, no.

[mech205eng 11]

Can't see it being anything to do with the cable since it is adjusting up way beyond the level of the brake pedal. Check where it enters the pedal box that its mounted in the hole properly and not pulling through. When the box was off did you inspect the release arm mechanism to see if its bent or bending under pressure? What about the plastic bearings top and bottom any play there? It's a pretty simple clutch there's only so much that can be/go wrong with it.

 

Not overlooking the obvious you have got oil in the box haven't you?

 

The arm looked straight and undamaged, it moved freely, but not excessively. Well there isn't oil in it right now, When I put the box back in today after changing the bearing I didn't have much confidence that it would fix the problem so I didn't bother topping up with oil incase it didn't work. But before with the bx bearing in it was full of oil yes.

 

 

Mine selected gears without the engine too, but running, no.

Right well I will find a helper and check that, but I cant see that been the problem because if you put it in gear with the engine off, then press the clutch, then start the engine. It will lunge forward and stay in the gear. This has to be a clutch issue

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Have you used this box before or is it new to you? Do you know for sure that is works properly. On axle stands and in neutral with the box full of oil the wheels should turn slowly with the engine running due to drag from the oil because the gears are so close to each other. Grinding gears can be down to worn out synchro's but reverse doesn't have one so if it wont go in reverse and grinds like mad something could be amiss. Did you check the output shaft sleeve too I had to swap a box at christmas that i'd just put on and when i took it off noticed that the sleeve had some serious wear in it affecting the thrush bearing that i'd overlooked