Camber Difference

[PhilNW 43]

Getting a bit of imbalance on turn in -

 

Been measuring camber on my road rally 205 and there is a difference in the 2 sides, get 0.2+ve on LHS and 0.9-ve on RHS with the wheels set parallel

 

Rear is 0.5 -ve both sides

 

Just wondering what are people's preferred settings and whether its worth getting some adjustable top mounts to even the camber up other suggestions welcome

 

Suspension is gravel springs and bilstein inserts , GrpA top mounts and adjustable platforms

 

Thanks in advance

Edited August 11, 2013 by PhilNW

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

First of all check you're running 205 wishbones both sides. That much difference points to it having a 309 item on the side with neg camber.

 

On my road rally car I run arou d -0.5 degrees on the front using rose jointed wishbones. I'm currently using silverstone knobblies and it works well.

I'd personally go for rose jointed wishbone over eccentric top mounts on a rally car any day, the strength advantages are well worth it.

[jackherer 543]

Check the hub carriers too, if you have a 306 one fitted it's about 1 degree less negative camber.

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

I'm using 309 track control arms, and although they both are 309 items, they are from different manufacturers, and there is quite a noticeable difference. I'm not sure if this is the same case with wishbones too

[PhilNW 43]

Both wishbones are PTS uprated non rose jointed pretty sure they are both 205 hubs

Edited August 12, 2013 by PhilNW

[engine killer 6]

First of all check you're running 205 wishbones both sides. That much difference points to it having a 309 item on the side with neg camber.

 

On my road rally car I run arou d -0.5 degrees on the front using rose jointed wishbones. I'm currently using silverstone knobblies and it works well.

I'd personally go for rose jointed wishbone over eccentric top mounts on a rally car any day, the strength advantages are well worth it.

forgive my asking, what will too much / excess -ve camber affect the driving? will it make the straight line very nervous?

[DanteICE 72]

forgive my asking, what will too much / excess -ve camber affect the driving? will it make the straight line very nervous?

 

Theoretically yes, under acceleration. But it's more noticeable that too much toe out will make it nervous in a straight line.

Edited August 13, 2013 by DanteICE

[engine killer 6]

 

Theoretically yes, under acceleration. But it's more noticeable that too much toe out will make it nervous in a straight line.

my current setting has a little toe-in (cannot remember how much, but definitely not toe out), about 1.5 degree -ve camber and abit bit more than original +ve caster (the strut tops have been shifted to the rear for about 14mm). the car goes pretty alright but when under hard acceleration it seems quite nervous sometimes, i have a quaife atb equipped already (should be better than none although it should never be compared to any proper lsd), shall i adjust the camber down to say ~0.5-1.0 degree?

 

am i correct that +ve caster shall give better straight line stability and more -ve camber when steering?

 

thanks

[Cameron 16]

No you shouldn't, 1.5Deg of -ve camber is nothing at all.

 

Yeah you're right about the caster, but it will also make the steering heavy and make very little difference to the steer camber as cornering at any kind of speed requires very little lock. It isn't really worth it if your trade-off is camber vs caster (i.e. with eccentric top mounts) as you won't notice the difference.

 

A lot of people think lots of caster is great because all the big RWD cars have it (M3's etc) but their requirements are very different to those of FWD cars.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Cameron

[engine killer 6]

No you shouldn't, 1.5Deg of -ve camber is nothing at all.

 

Yeah you're right about the caster, but it will also make the steering heavy and make very little difference to the steer camber as cornering at any kind of speed requires very little lock. It isn't really worth it if your trade-off is camber vs caster (i.e. with eccentric top mounts) as you won't notice the difference.

 

A lot of people think lots of caster is great because all the big RWD cars have it (M3's etc) but their requirements are very different to those of FWD cars.

thanks for your advice.

 

mines strut top is camber and caster adjustable independently. i also have a home brew roll center and bump steer correctors installed (it helps a bit when going through uneven surface).

 

some said the torque from the engine is too strong that the chassis cannot cope with, so resulting heavy torque steer, any comment?

[Tom Fenton 1,536]

some said the torque from the engine is too strong that the chassis cannot cope with, so resulting heavy torque steer, any comment?

 

What torque do you have?

 

I have 211ft/lb and when everything it set up right and in good condition it will drive totally straight at full torque. It is sensitive to both worn components and correct geometry though.

[engine killer 6]

i have lost the figure / plot from dyno some years ago. my engine is a Mi16 over bored to 2.0l, 45mm Jenvey itb, JE piston and Arrow conrod, Catcam, Autronics.

 

only hard acceleration make me nervous. steady high speed seems ok.

[Tom Fenton 1,536]

Maybe c.170ft/lb then. If everything is right should be no problem.

[Cameron 16]

Man up, basically.

 

Torque steer will always be an issue for FWD if you have enough of it, an LSD will help if you find it a problem.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Toe in won't help it on acceleration, try tracking it parallel or a little toe out

[PhilNW 43]

Haynes manual and others say that the standard camber is 0 plus or minus 0.5 degree, what do people find as actual when they have measured their camber.

In theory the LHS is in tolerance!

 

What increase in camber should you expect if a 309 hub has been used in error?

Edited August 13, 2013 by PhilNW

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

205s vary massively but yours is fairly bad IMO.

 

A 205 with a bolt upright wheel (0 degrees camber) will show +1.3 degrees camber. I've measured alot of hubs and this is the average Ive found.

[engine killer 6]

seems like i shall try tracking parallel toe and remain the -ve1.5 camber and the caster at next service.