205 Gti6 Help Please

[trind 3 1 Cars]

i've just brought a 205 with a gti6 engine in, now the conversion seems pretty good quality and its supposedly cammed and 4 branch manifold with full system and on a 1.6 box. but my question really is how quick should this be? it seems to really come on song at high revs but not much low down could be due to the cams but it just doesn't seem quite quick enough in comparison to my old gti's. just wondering if there's anything that commonly goes and could cause a lack in power? if not i may get it on a dyno and see what its putting out or if anyones near by and knows anything?

 

here's a little pic of the engine bay

 

 

thanks

[Anthony 1,003]

If it has got cams, my question would be whether they've been timed in correctly - on standard pistons, there is very little valve clearance and that means that you can't properly time in many aftermarket cams. I say "if" because I've seen plenty of people that have bought supposed "cammed" engines - and GTi-6's seem to be one of the worst - that are in fact running standard cams.

 

A 205 GTi-6 on a 1.6 gearbox should feel pretty quick really, certainly compared to an 8v.

[trind 3 1 Cars]

ok cheers anthony i will try find out if its cammed or not im always wary they haven't been when people say they are! out of interest what gearbox do most prefer for these?

[Anthony 1,003]

Typically either a 1.6 GTi, Mi16/S16 or Xsara VTS gearbox as a reasonable compromise for a road going or road/track car.

[welshpug 1,657]

very much personal preference and usage, but most either use the 1.6 gti box or an MI or xsara vts box.

 

it's often difficult to find whether the cams are non standard without taking the cam pulleys off, as the markings are usually on the ends! though I have seen a regrind by piper that had numbers stamped on the vacuum pump end, so only a few allen keys and you should be able to see.

 

do bear in mind that if youve been on a motorbike not much will feel particularly quick any more either

[trind 3 1 Cars]

ok cheers for the help lads and welshpug that is very true but the r1 felt slow in the end. i only ask as we have a little speed test to a sign and the pug isn't really any quicker than my old one's but it does pull harder. ill get her in for a dyno at least ill be happy to know its putting out the correct power then

[gjuk 2]

My GTI6 in a 205 is level pegging with my brothers (new shape) Civic Type R

 

I'm not sure if it shoudl be quicker?!

[welshpug 1,657]

did a bit of googling and found a few figures across forums, so take them with a piunch of salt, and also bear in mind that this doesn't take into account which box the 205 is running nor how healthy either is.

 

UK EP3

Kerb weight 1270 kg + 197bhp = 155.12 bhp/ton

JDM EP3

Kerb weight 1190 kg + 212bhp = 178.15 bhp/ton

 

 

205 gti6, estimated at around 930 kilos + 167 bhp = 179 bhp/ton.

 

but the civic has a very good 6 speed box so can probably make the most of that power.

[Gman 29]

did a bit of googling and found a few figures across forums, so take them with a piunch of salt, and also bear in mind that this doesn't take into account which box the 205 is running nor how healthy either is.

 

UK EP3

 

Kerb weight 1270 kg + 197bhp = 155.12 bhp/ton

 

JDM EP3

 

Kerb weight 1190 kg + 212bhp = 178.15 bhp/ton

 

 

205 gti6, estimated at around 930 kilos + 167 bhp = 179 bhp/ton.

 

but the civic has a very good 6 speed box so can probably make the most of that power.

 

The EP3 is the breadvan shape, so I think gjuk is referring to the most recent FN2 type r (201bhp & 1267kg).

 

A healthy 205 gti6 should be quicker than a EP3 or FN2 type r, but not massively.

[dcc 855]

My old standard gti6 was far quicker than a fn2. My bloody 120bhp 106 was quicker than one too!

[Roon 29 1 Cars]

It should kick you in the face mine certainly does.

 

Especially as your running a 1.6 box, so acceleration should be its strongest point.

 

As said above I'd check if it was cammed and timed up. Conversion does look to a good standard. Cleaner than when I picked mine up lol

[trind 3 1 Cars]

cheers roon, im sure somethings not right now! my dad had a go in it and wasn't impressed! going to check the timing asap and go from there

[dcc 855]

be very careful with the timing, and assume the lower pulley has slipped (they are 2 metal items pressed together with rubber in the middle - timing hole is on the outer pulley part - likely to be the bit which has slipped). Use an 8v lower pulley to do the timing. it is a solid 1 piece item, although it wont do the job for the engine when it is running as it is the wrong offset and tooth diameter. Alternatively you could purchase a solid aluminium lower pulley.

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

Another contributory factor could be the exhaust system. I had a horrible fart pipe Sportex exhaust, pretty much straight through with a cherrbomb style backbox. I replaced the centre and backbox with factory equivalent spec parts and kept the modified downpipe on. The car instantly pulled harder lower down the rev range with no loss on the top end. It definitely accelerates quicker and pulls harder than my previous Clio 197 Cup through gears although I currently have the 6 Speed 'box (soon to be replaced with a VTS 5 speed ).

 

As a reference point of acceleration from 1st-4th here's a vid of a 205 with a standard GTi6 engine and Xsara VTS 'box on the 1/4 mile (user on here called Shooter McGavin):

. Edit - Just realised you have a 1.6 'box doh Edited July 31, 2013 by Ams

[trind 3 1 Cars]

Decided to put the car on the rollers so took it Down to mechrepairs in Cheltenham who seem a very helpful bunch, anyway after a few runs she's running 165bhp and 141lbft so it was running right, I'm a little disappointed may try a xsara box see what that feels like

 

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

If it is just straight line speed compared to modern hot hatches you are bothered about then you are kind of missing the point of the 205?

[trind 3 1 Cars]

hi tom no iv'e had a few 205's so no how much fun they are, here's a pic of me coming through the first chicane at coombe (no spin!) no im getting used to her she's not too bad anyway just think some longer gearing may help a bit

 

[Anthony 1,003]

Longer gearing will make it feel slower rather than quicker!

 

(good effort recovering from being that sideways btw!)

[petert 586]

I agree, xsara box is a backwards step from a 1.6 box. Stick with that and look for more power elsewhere if you feel it's lacking. 165hp suggests it's bog stock.

[welshpug 1,657]

Goliath is local to you, but I'm afraid his 200 LBFT will make it look silly

 

the graph looks perfectly fine.

[dcc 855]

to me 165bhp suggests it isn't very healthy - maybe just cam timing or a faulty sensor somewhere. the engines made 167bhp in a 306/xsara with a cat. every one I have seen (healthy that is) in a 205 has always made better power than the stated figures for the 306/xsara.

[welshpug 1,657]

it was a rolling road though dan

[trind 3 1 Cars]

Cheers lads I think I will for now! It's pretty good for the B roads as it is! Yeah Anthony that's was only my 1.6 so was trying to make some time up!

[trind 3 1 Cars]

An cheers ddc I will still get my dad to check the timing just incase

[djackson1980 3]

Have you put this up for sale now?