[Car_Overhaul] One Thing Leads To Another..

[Anthony 1,003]

As for the 9 pin plug, for a Phase 1.5 it should be as follows:

 

1. Reverse lamp

2. Reverse lamp

3. Coolant temperature warning lamp

4. Coolant temperature gauge

5. Alternator charge lamp

6. Oil pressure warning lamp

7. Oil temperature gauge

8. Oil pressure gauge

9. Switched +12v ignition (starter solenoid on Phase 2's)

 

So yes, looks like your list is correct

[Kane 34]

Thanks Anthony I think that helps. The main confusion with my information I think is the additional wire coming from pin 3 of the multi-plug.

 

So as I now understand it, I have the connection between -ve coil and ignition amp (pin 2) with a splice onto pin 4 of the 6 pin multi-plug. Apologies again about my limited knowledge, I appreciate your patience.

[S@m 156]

I've got an mi16 loom converted to ph1.5 205 brown multiplugs at home, i'll have a gander for you later.

[Kane 34]

Great, thanks Sam

[GLPoomobile 958]

Are you sure about that, as it doesn't sound right to me (although I don't have an Mi loom in front of me to check against)?

 

 

It doesn't sound right to me either- i remember that pin 2 of the amp goes to pin 1 on the coil but i'm fairly sure they connect to nothing else. I'd have to check CAPS when i get home for more info.

 

Is this not a case of "there's more than 1 way to skin a cat"? Sam, what you've described is actually (functionally) the same as what Kane described, because the wires are joined in Kane's version, so the relevant pins on the coil and amp are still connected. It's just that in your description the Amp and coil are directly connected rather than splitting off to the brown plug as well.

 

What Kane asked, and I replied to confirm, is how my own Mi is wired up. And it works just fine. It was based on how the original loom was set up in the car (and worked), I matched it against a donor loom for assurance, and verified it against CAPs. If it's any use, I have a nice (IMO) graphical representation of my loom that is really easy to follow. Is there any way to attach the file (PDF) to a post? Kane, I'll happily email it to you if you want.

 

Could someone confirm for me if these pins are correct for the 9 pin multi-plug also.

 

Pin 1 - Reverse light switch

Pin 2 - Reverse light switch

Pin 3 - coolant temp switch

Pin 4 - coolant temp sensor

pin 5 - alternator

pin 6 - oil pressure switch

pin 7 - oil temp sensor

pin 8 - oil pressure sensor

pin 9 - switched +ve to coil

 

This is correct on mine (also an 89 reg).

Edited July 31, 2014 by GLPoomobile

[Kane 34]

@GLPoomobile: I agree with your point, I think the suggested routes for this particular wiring issue lead to pretty much the same outcome. Thanks for the offer of the pdf, I think I might have actually finished the loom now well almost . Just trying to get this bloody braided sleeving on to it and get it fitted to the car.

 

Hopefully if the weather holds out tomorrow I'll be able to get it done and fitting in the morning.

[S@m 156]

 

 

Is this not a case of "there's more than 1 way to skin a cat"? Sam, what you've described is actually (functionally) the same as what Kane described, because the wires are joined in Kane's version, so the relevant pins on the coil and amp are still connected. It's just that in your description the Amp and coil are directly connected rather than splitting off to the brown plug as well.

 

 

I realise that they would serve the same function and i am only trying to assist, having used a 2 row mi16 as a daily driver for almost 10 years i've encountered most issues and have rewired a few. But there is no need whatsoever to have the wire from pin 2 of the coil to pin 1 of the amp going anywhere near the brown plugs;

 

 

It was based on how the original loom was set up in the car (and worked), I matched it against a donor loom for assurance, and verified it against CAPs.

 

Not wishing to come across as "arsey" or sore but i believe the above is incorrect, both the BX and the 405 use the setup i describe, as is verified by the venerable CAPS and my own experiences with both vehicles. I think perhaps you are getting mixed up with the ignition live wire from the brown multiplugs which splits into two and thereby connects pin 3 on the coil with pin 4 on the amp. I have attached the coil wiring diagram from CAPS which shows this.

 

 

Kane, with regard to my loom which i said i would check for you, my brown plugs are as follows, and this is from a '89 F plate car converted to 2 row mi16 management.

 

6 pin

1 - not used

2 - Fuel Pump

3 - not used

4 - Rev Counter signal from coil

5 - ECU diagnostic (although i never got around to putting the bulb in the dash to confirm its function)

6 - Starter Solenoid

 

 

9 pin

1 - Reverse switch

2 - Reverse switch

3 - Coolant temp warning light

4 - Coolant temp gauge

5 - Alternator exciter

6 - Oil pressure light

7 - Oil temp gauge

8 - Oil pressure gauge

9 - Ignition live

 

So basically the same as everyone else's by the sounds of it!

 

I hope to be a help, i do not wish to cause any division or bad feeling, i just want to help Kane to get the car sorted as a 16v 205 is a wonderful thing.

 

Sam

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2014 by Sam306

[S@m 156]

It doesn't sound right to me either- i remember that pin 2 of the amp goes to pin 1 on the coil but i'm fairly sure they connect to nothing else. I'd have to check CAPS when i get home for more info.

 

I have just noticed that in this post i got the pins of the coil and amp back to front. It should read pin 2 on the coil and 1 on the amp NOT vice versa as i stated.

 

 

So as I now understand it, I have the connection between -ve coil and ignition amp (pin 2) with a splice onto pin 4 of the 6 pin multi-plug. Apologies again about my limited knowledge, I appreciate your patience.

 

Just to clarify, pin 2 on the amp in fact goes to earth - i used a ring terminal on the ign amp mounting plate for this, and pin 1 on the coil is the rev counter output and as such goes to the brown plugs.

 

I hope i haven't just confused matters further with all this.

[Kane 34]

Thanks for the input Sam it is appreciated.

 

I've had the loom out at the car and trimmed the excess cable down so am now onto the final straight, with the wiring anyway. Hopefully I'll get the rest tidied up tonight ready for installation bright and early tomorrow. I'll be sure to update when I progress.

 

Thanks again for everyone's help

[GLPoomobile 958]

Sam, just to be clear on this, I'm not trying to be argumentative or arsey either And I can assure you, there is no confusion on my part. All this shows us is that both approaches obviously work.

 

My engine conversion was done by DES years ago - whom I've criticised since, but they were well respected when they were around - and it all worked fine apart from being a bit ropey and aged looking. My own built loom matched that DES loom and worked fine after install. I've not been on CAPS in years, but looking at the screen shot above and comparing it to my own diagram they pretty much match each other (apart from the fact mine has coil pin 1 and amp pin 2 joined and going to brown plug pins 3 and 6, however, unless someone can explain to the contrary, I see no reason for this to be an issue). And as mentioned, I also used a donor loom, that IIRC was from a 309 with MI transplant, to double check against.

 

So yours works, and mine works, and Kane's should work too. I just wanted to assure Kane that he wasn't doing anything wrong, even if it's not exactly how you and Anthony have done Mi conversions

 

Bit late now, but the only other thing I would have suggested Kane is not to wrap the loom until you've given it a trial run first (and also don't bother properly routing it until it's tested). If there's anything wrong, it'll be an arse removing the loom and unwrapping it to investigate/repair.

Edited July 31, 2014 by GLPoomobile

[Kane 34]

I haven't got round to wrapping it quite yet but I'm going to have to before I fit the various connectors onto the wire as I'm using braided sleeving. The cables themselves need to be fed through one end and will not fit with the plugs etc attached.

 

Here's hoping it works first time as it was a right PITA removing the various plugs the first time round. Wish me luck ha ha

[S@m 156]

I too hope it works and as i now realise and stated above; i initially made a mistake regarding getting the coil/amp pins back to front which threw me off but i can't understand how it runs without ign amp pin 2 going to earth but instead joining up with the rev counter output wire from the coil and then on to the brown plugs.

 

Regardless, i am happy to be proved wrong. Fingers crossed it fires up for you, Kane, it is always a great moment.

[Kane 34]

So pretty much finished the main part of the loom this morning, strangely it was the fitting of the various terminals was the most time consuming job. I've still to add in the injector portion of the loom and a few more terminals such as earths etc but will do that when the loom is actually fitted in the engine bay. Here's a couple of snaps of the process.

 

Here is the all the cable temporarily strapped together.

 

 

I then moved the loom to the car to check the lengths I had previously measured out with string. I intentionally left the wires longer than measured to take into account any mistakes I might have made. Following the fitting I trimmed back the additional length of various wires that was not required as seen below.

 

 

 

Trimmed back

 

 

And what I have at the moment.

 

 

I should hopefully get time to get back out to the car in the middle of next week to get the wiring finished. Then that leaves the following jobs on the to-do list before tax and test time:

 

Fit new return fuel line and hose

Remove exhaust manifold to fit wedge plate (thanks to jackherer for supplying this)

weld up a new downpipe and fit exhaust

refit clutch cable to gearbox (anyone got a photo of this as I was struggling to remember how it came off. It is a be3 box)

refit front seats

refit dash

reconnect handbrake cables

refit bonnet release cable

refit front bumper with brace bars

splice new driving lamps in with old loom

refit front valance.

 

Then all that is left is to throw in some fluids and start her up.... I hope

[Kane 34]

Does anyone have a picture of how the vacuum hose attaches to the brake servo from the top of the inlet manifold?

[Anthony 1,003]

On a typical 205 Mi16 install, the answer is rather untidily using the original 8v vacuum pipe draped over the cam cover.

 

Better in my opinion to use a longer vacuum hose and run it underneath the inlet and follow the line of the fuel pipes near the offside engine mount.

[jackherer 543]

As above, route a longer hose out of sight. Even a standard 8V 205 GTI has a pretty ugly servo hose passing over the cam cover diagonally but on an MI16 it looks even worse, unless it's LHD of course!

[Kane 34]

I'll have to order some new hose in, will get that done tonight. As for the connection to the servo itself could someone explain if I'm missing something from this photo or have a picture of their servo I can refer to.

 

 

Now I currently have the vacuum hoses hooked up from the box in the scuttle and the engine bay to the blue cylindrical section in the picture. I'm assuming the vacuum hose from the inlet goes onto the section of the T-piece in the photo although where does the white plug go? Is it into the brake servo hole pictured? If so I think I've lost something as the white plug is slightly too small for the hole.

[jackherer 543]

There is a black rubber seal that goes around the white piece so it can seal onto the servo.

[mrfirepro 127 1 Cars]

Kane,

 

Is this any help

 

[jackherer 543]

This shows the seal in place

[Kane 34]

That's perfect, thanks very much. Only problem now is I don't have a feckin clue where the seal is anybody happen to have one lying around that I could pinch?

 

Got a good bit done on the car today. From the list I posted earlier this is what I managed to get through:

 

Fit new return fuel line and hose

Remove exhaust manifold (Still need to re-fit with wedge plate although need to get myself some gasket sealant)

weld up a new downpipe and fit exhaust

refit clutch cable to gearbox

refit front seats

refit dash (Had a look at doing that this evening but can't for the life of me remember how it all goes back together and in what order )

reconnect handbrake cables

refit bonnet release cable

refit front bumper with brace bars

splice new driving lamps in with old loom

refit front valance.

I fit the loom today as well and everything went in OK, my only gripe I have is that some of the wiring around the OS engine area is longer that it really needs to be. I'm going to leave it as it is for now as I am really needing the car on the road by the end of the month so will have to come back to it at a later date.

Just one question regarding the shunt box, is it basically a live feed from the battery to feed various parts of the car? i.e is it just a case of the same amount of power feeding each output of the shunt box or does each specific port serve a separate purpose?

[jackherer 543]

The shunt box is basically the first fuse box, it supplies the body loom, engine loom and fan loom. The plugs are keyed so I don't think you can connect them wrongly.

[mrfirepro 127 1 Cars]

Kane,

 

Think I have one I can send you, I'll try and dig it out tomorrow, I still have your address.

[Kane 34]

I hadn't disconnected any plug apart from the one that was attached to the old 8v loom so it is in the correct place although I think I must have re-used the incorrect plug as it doesn't have the small notch that the housing has. It does fit although it bends the plastic of the socket ever so slightly, would you recommend cutting off the plug and looking out the other one with the notch and fit that?

 

That would be great Paul, let me know how much the postage is and I'll send it through to your paypal.

[jackherer 543]

I've had to fit them with the wrong plug like that before just because it was all I had available and it works fine but given that you've made a whole new loom I'd say it's worth making it perfect!