Advice For Rwd Ford Engine Conversion, Not 205 But Mgb

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

firstly apologies for this not being a 205, or any kind of pug.

 

basically I promised the wife that when the 205 was finished she could choose the next car to 'play' with.

 

she has decided (well with a little help from me) on an mgb gt but brought into the 21st century.

 

I've been toying with different engines including pug (if there was an easy way of mounting an ew for rwd id probably go with that), but I think im settled on a zetec/duratec with either a mt75 or type 9 box.

 

now I don't really know too much about ford engines, ideally I would like a duratec st engine but and concerned about the vvt and dmf setup so a basic silvertop of blacktop would be the sensible option? 2.0ltr would be the size.

 

can anyone give me any actual facts and advice on what's best to go for engine wise? id like to keep the spend down but by no means be a cheap arse with it, will be running tb's and some sort of aftermarket management.

 

I don't mind doing some head work as I quite enjoyed that on the xu7 so would need to be an alloy head (are they all?)

so strongish bottom end and a decent head (not really fancying the st170 head and vvt setup)

 

best one for parts and interchangability across the ford range along with mating to a rwd box.

 

so far I have got silvertop 2.0 engine and fly, pinto clutch and type 9 box. more than likely emerald or omex management......

 

this wont be happening for a few months until I can gather some funds after my holiday but if anyones interested i'll put a thread up about it? we all love cars right...

[johnhenry 20]

Pinto's ive read are an inexpensive but fairly rewarding engine to work on? relatively cheap to procure too.

SOHC stuff, which might not be to everyones taste, but certainly simple.

 

If you want to learn more about them;

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26804743/How-to-Modify-Ford-s-o-h-c-Engines-David-Vizard

 

Is a bible in terms of advise and what to look for.

 

Cheers

John

[TurboSam 5]

A mate of mine fitted a duratec engine from a Fiesta ST to his MGB GT.

 

Didn't look excessively complex to fit. Bellhousing from a Caterham mounted the duratec to type 9.

 

Funnily enough he's from Ashford too. If you like I can put you in contact with him - he loves talking about it, so will be happy to show you I'm sure.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

its deffo going to be 16v of some kind so the pinto is out of the question.

 

Sam if you don't mind sharing his details or give him mine, would be a great help

 

cheers

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

Hi,

 

I'll certainly not scoff at a non-pug related thread every now and again. I've a Mk2 escort that will be getting the Zetec treatment at some point so this is all very interesting too!

 

My choice of Zetec over Duratec was cost driven. I got a 1999 ex police mondeo with 2.0 black top for little more than scrap value, and at a time when the Duratec wasnt long introduced and would have been well out of my league at that time. It would be interesting to see what prices / availabilty would be like now tho. My general impression is that the Zetec is still the more cost friendly option. The Duratec has become the younger, more saught after engine among the rallying / track car crowd, while the Zetec is still saught after, but by the lower budget DIY'ers. Would be interesting to see how Turbosam's contact got on with the Duratec in the MGB.

 

If you do end up with the Zetec, then the main issues off the top of my head will probably be:

 

1. Sump/pick up pipe. Not sure what cross members etc are like on the MGB but you may have to buy / fabricate a rear bowl type sump.

 

2. Thermostat housing. Again, not sure what bulk head clearance is like on your MG, but you may have to fabricate some water tight flanges / pipe work. Or buy a ready made item from Retroford or Raceline for around £200 if I remember correctly.

 

3. Exhaust. I'm guessing if your going with throttle bodies, then you'll be ditching the standard cast manifold. I'm not aware of anyone that supplies a four branch for the Zetec into MGB install, so the only thing I could suggest is having a go at making your own (for the really brave) or get hold of one designed for the Mk1/2 Escort and modify it to fit. Ashley do low budget mild steel four branch but it's not 'tuned'. I went for a stainless steel item (one of my guilty pleasures / treats for the Mk2). I got it from a guy called Neil at 105speed.com. They actually specialise in Anglia parts and conversions but started supplying specialy designed manifolds for the Escort folk.

 

Thats the main things I can think of right now. Turbosport os a great website / forum for any old ford stuff, including info on all sorts of conversions such as Zetec and Duratec. I remember seeing someone do the Zetec into MGB thing!....

..here it is...

 

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=127484&highlight=mgb+zetec

 

I'm sure a good search would reveal more.

 

Good luck with whatever you go for!

 

p.s. I know you mentioned throttle bodies, but if you decide to go for twin webers for example, make sure to look out for one with a '5th progression hole'. For some reason the Zetec seems suffer from a flat spot in the power delivery when fitted with the standard type carbs. Again, a search should give a better explanation.

[omega 82]

what about a 106 gti engine? or are you looking for big cc?

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Cheers for the advice Davy looks like I've got some reading to do, out if interest what are the differences between black and silver top zetecs?

 

Ill probably make my own exh mani along with mounts and other fabricated parts. If not ill hoodwink a friend into doing it.

 

Other things I've just come across is the water pump orientation without the serpentine belt? As it goes the wrong way?

 

I'm not after big cc just most bang for buck out if the box really, I don't want to do too much internal mods. And if a 106 valver would fit to a rwd box I'd consider it.

[Batfink 201]

Vauxhall red top?

[omega 82]

yes a 106 will fit to a rwd gearbox

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

..Oh dear, it's been a while so this is going to test the memory. (see what happens when these little french wagons shove the old Ford off centre stage!)..

 

The main differences I can remember are:

 

1. Cylinder head. I'm unsure if the actual castings and valves are the same or not but the cam followers are hydraulic type on silver top and shimmed type on the black top. Again, I think this means specific cam shafts for each. There's also somthing about the Focus ST170 head having bigger valves / ports and if your not keen on the VVT, it can be easily ditched.

 

2. Water pump. Yes the majority (if not all) silver tops turn clockwise while all blacktops turn anticlockise, running off the 'back of the belt'. The silver top pump sits into the block, while the black top is somtimes referred to as an external pump and it sits a bit off centre. The anticlockwise thing isnt a big problem and can be overcome with a sensibly placed idler pulley tho. I'd stick a few pics in if I could figure out how to attach them to someone elses thread...?..

 

You'll hear the FWD folk talking about different engine mounts as the one on the end at the timing gear is different. For RWD fitment tho the ones on the sides of the block are the same on both.

 

Flywheels are the same on both (definately through the escort / mondeo era anyway) and a 1.6/1.8 flywheel is lighter and a direct swap for the 2.0 one.

 

 

Vauxhall red top?

 

 

Another excellent choice with some RWD conversion parts supplies out there.

 

Sorry my memory/knowledge is a bit limited. The turbosport forum is definately worth a look for this kind of stuff (including the vauxhall conversion). As are some locost kit car type sites.

 

One thing I did notice in the previously attached thread is the space / position of the exhaust manifold in the MGB. The way it needs to go down to the bottom of the engine before heading back below the floor. It almost looks like a four branch from a FWD application could be easier modified than the likes of an escort one. Just a thaught as I think it's hard to shape / weld a tidy manifold and there's the tuning aspect too.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

yes a 106 will fit to a rwd gearbox

what bellhousing would fit that? or am I looking custom made? as that's what drew me towards ford in the first place due to factory rwd parts being available: read cheap

 

been looking through the zetec section on turbosport for the last hour or so and it doesn't look to much of a hassle to fit. and probably the cheapest when it comes to sourcing an actual engine and parts.

 

I was under the impression from some posts that the silvertop w/pump will fit the blacktop hole and be the correct orientation?? ill do some more investigating.

[omega 82]

what bellhousing would fit that? or am I looking custom made? as that's what drew me towards ford in the first place due to factory rwd parts being available: read cheap

 

been looking through the zetec section on turbosport for the last hour or so and it doesn't look to much of a hassle to fit. and probably the cheapest when it comes to sourcing an actual engine and parts.

 

I was under the impression from some posts that the silvertop w/pump will fit the blacktop hole and be the correct orientation?? ill do some more investigating.

 

 

 

a Suzuki sj box will fit straight on with a couple of elongated holes

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

what bellhousing would fit that? or am I looking custom made? as that's what drew me towards ford in the first place due to factory rwd parts being available: read cheap

 

been looking through the zetec section on turbosport for the last hour or so and it doesn't look to much of a hassle to fit. and probably the cheapest when it comes to sourcing an actual engine and parts.

 

I was under the impression from some posts that the silvertop w/pump will fit the blacktop hole and be the correct orientation?? ill do some more investigating.

 

This is maybe why I think there may be two types of silver top pump and if you get a silver top engine with the anticlockwise pump, then it's just a matter of sourcing a clockwise pump with it's multigrooved pulley. The black top is definately a different fitment altogether.

 

As for the XE conversion, there's bound to be the odd Manta or Omega gearbox out there. I also think I've read and seen photos of someone mating the XE to Fords type 9 box on the other site.

 

Just to add even more choice (and mess your head up even more!) What about the S2000 Honda Vtec?! It's a bit more saught after and costly but it's about 200 bhp 'out of the box' if I remember correctly!

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Hmmmm 106 engine looks a good bet then ????

 

What would gearing be like on an sj box though? Being a 4x4, or would the diff take car of all that?

 

I was all set on a zetec but another pug engine would be nice

 

Or how about a 20v Audi turbo engine....

Edited June 24, 2013 by pugpete1108

[Cameron 16]

PLEASE don't do all this work to fit it to a completely unsuitable gearbox! I can't bare to see people do projects that require all this custom fabrication, only to see them bolt a gearbox out of a f***ing Transit van to it!

 

I have a Ford T9 that is surplus to my requirements, you can have that and either fit a Vauxhall or a Ford engine to it - there are bellhousings available for both.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

That's really the bit I was struggling with?

 

As the only boxes I could see in std form were from crappy old sierras or 4x4 and the like.

 

How would your t9 go with a zetec? I'd it a well geared box?

 

If you don't plan on getting shot of it anytime soon ill probably have it off you

[welshpug 1,657]

SJ boxes will take an absolute beating I can vouch for that, they have a separate transfer box, a mate has used one bolted to a Vitara 1600 16v lump which is 100 bhp, and the amount of clutch dumping and flat changes that got in an SJ trailler running diamonds and it didn't break was unbelievable

 

I would however check how much torque they can take, though Turbo diesel conversions are relatively well known.

 

 

Nothing wrong with a tranny van gearbox, where do you think that T9 came from cast iron predecessor to the alloy MT75, also used in the tranny

Edited June 25, 2013 by welshpug