Deleting Header Tank?

[rallyeash 155]

If you've been following my build thread you'll know that ive just fitted a dry sump setup, the cooler, tank etc sits infront of the engine and ive added a bracket to sit the renault 5 radiator in infront of all this. The renault 5 rad is good because its roughly half the length but twice as thick as a 205 item.

 

Im at the stage now where the oil system is all back together and the car runs again but ive got to fit my coolant system back in. (i did bodge it in to get it running)

 

Now has anyone ever tried to run somthing like a 106 radiator which has the header tank on the side of the rad, delete the 205 header tank and persumably loop the metal pipe that runs behind the block up into the pipe that comes out of the thermostat housing to complete a circuit.

 

i cant see any obvious reasons to why it wouldnt work?

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

The whole point in an expansion tank is so the water has somewhere to expand too not only that it also sits higher than the engine so the inside of it is fully submerged to allow coolant to flow, if the 106 rad isnt mounted as high as the top of your engine i would forget about that idea. Presumably the water system on a 106 engine is below the top radiator water line

[welshpug 1,657]

IIRC carl chambers has used a 106 gti rad on his 205 gti6 track car, dont know how well it coped with cooling though.

 

BBM do a few different ally rads, this probably will have the capacity.

 

 

http://www.bakerbm.com/106.php?data=alurad106

[rallyeash 155]

thats the reason why when you bleed it you use a 2 litre coke bottle as an extension of the header tank?!

 

that on the blue 205 gti6 WP? so in theory it could be do able..

[Anthony 1,003]

I don't see any reason why it would not work - after all, the 306/Xsara the engine originally comes from doesn't use a seperate expansion tank and instead has a header tank as part of the radiator, so providing that you mirror the 306/Xsara plumbing it will work just fine.

[rallyeash 155]

exactly my thoughts Anthony! it would make the bay look much better but just seems odd no one has done or tried it before!

 

i think an aftermarket thicker 106 or 306 rad could the job nicely

[dcc 855]

the difference with this engine though ant is the massively increase stress its under, under normal conditions when compared to a standard xsara/gti6 engine. If what you've got at the moment works, why change it? get it all back together as best as you can then fix/amend items which dont quite sit right.

[rallyeash 155]

the pipework from the rad back to engine won't fit easily back on as it fouls the dry sump pipework, the drive belt and pulleys for the dry sump dont give much room for a water pipe to go by so to even fit a standard radiator and header tank back into the car as it currently has no cooling system will be a ballache.

 

my thoughts were since ive got to start from scratch with the coolant plumbing why not get rid of additional pipework, make the system simple, less pipework to route and less potential leak points..

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

so you will fill it with a coke bottle and i assume remove the coke bottle and get the cap on asap to keep it 100% full so when the water expands when its hot and its got nowhere to go what then lol

[rallyeash 155]

how the car looks currently, so not much more work to do this idea...

 

[rallyeash 155]

so you will fill it with a coke bottle and i assume remove the coke bottle and get the cap on asap to keep it 100% full so when the water expands when its hot and its got nowhere to go what then lol

 

no, its been a few years since ive bled a 106 system or similar but you use a 2 litre plastic bottle to temp extend the header tank so its the highest point of the system. then once finished bleeding leave the header tank half full so its room to breath.

[Anthony 1,003]

You have to bleed factory standard 306/Xsara's in the same way, as the radiator cap isn't the highest point in the system.

 

It's a bit of a pain compared to the 205 setup, but once filled and bled, it works well.

 

My concern looking at your setup Ash is whether there's sufficient clearance for the top radiator hose on a full width radiator, particularly with a 106 style one where the outlet points directly back towards the bulkhead, rather than the 205 setup that points towards the O/S/F wing.

[rallyeash 155]

it should be ok, the radiator will sit lower than standard so it should come underneath the return pipe to oil tank, one of those silicone hoses desinged to bend should see it right.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

I understand what you mean but if you leave the header tank half full and since its lower than the highest water outlet on the engine it will introduce that half filled header tank of air into the system when its running wont it? If it works then as said further up why change it, its not something i would be comfortable with though on a scorching hot daytrip to the seaside. Just my thoughts though :/

Edited May 30, 2013 by Slo

[rallyeash 155]

as said i have no coolant system currently so its not a case of leave what works. whatever i do its not a simple put back together job.

 

every 106, 306, xsara has this system and that works so i dont see an issue.

[GLPoomobile 958]

exactly my thoughts Anthony! it would make the bay look much better but just seems odd no one has done or tried it before!

 

I'm sure that Dan Taylor removed his header tank when he was running the Mi16. If he did, it was shown in his projec thread, but dunno if that (or the pictures) would still be on here. I'm sure he had an alloy adaptor fitted in-line in the top radiator hose that had a filler cap fitted to it.

[welshpug 1,657]

It doesn't matter where the header tank is to a point, as long as the top of the rad can be bled it will work fine, on the 106 and 306 they are only connected at the bottom IIRC.

 

 

Funny you should mention use of a 106 rad, the black 106 race car with an SB engine at Combe runs an alloy 205 rad with a VW expansion tank behind the N-S/Left hand headlamp.

[rallyeash 155]

Adrian slades one yeah if so he only lives Aroubd the corner from me.

[GTI6BOY 29]

This is something I've always wanted to do as a 306 has it on the rad and as I got a 306 engine there is no reason for it not to work

[rallyeash 155]

I'm guna give it a go!

[MiniGibbo 142]

From what I've seen across the board on higher power models they normally have a seperate expansion tank.. This could just be so they can have a larger radiator though.

 

One way to find out

[rallyeash 155]

carl chambers 106 rad in a 205 gti6

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=130231

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Not sure if your on the 306 Forum, but look here, http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=152453&page=7#159

[rallyeash 155]

i am miles, ive been following his thread too.

 

to me 300+ seems alot for a radiator though. i was thinking maybe just trying to get away with a nissens one...?

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

The 205 GTI with airco has a similar layout as the 106....

 

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