309 Springs + Gti6 Engine Pics As Requested!

[shalmaneser 26]

FAO Anthony, and also for anyone else who might be interested in fitting 309 GTI springs to a GTI6 engined 205. I'm also running a 309 rear beam.

 

Very happy with the ride height and handling, especially after fitting the 24mm rear ARB. Fairly savage turn-in!

 

Posting from Picasa where Google is trying to be too clever for it's own good, so if no pics turn up please let me know.

 

 

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[pug_ham 243 3 Cars]

Looks to be a similar height to my old STDT with the same springs fitted;

 

 

g

[welshpug 1,646]

looks spot on that

 

 

You didn't perchance measure the free length of them?

 

Just that I have a set of original 205 springs here that I checked against a 306 DTurbo spring set earlier today.

 

gti was 330mm free length, 6 coils, 12.6mm wire diameter.

 

306 spring was 7 coils, 12.77mm wire, 430 mm free length

[shalmaneser 26]

not free length im afraid but can measure wire diameter/coils this weekend while I'm fighting with a CV joint....

[pug_ham 243 3 Cars]

You didn't perchance measure the free length of them?

I've measured them before & fairly sure I posted the free length a long time ago on here, iirc they were 300mm & wire thickness slightly more than the 205 ones.

 

I've still got the springs but they are built up in struts so can't measure them again easily but will check the number of coils & wire thickness if you want.

 

g

[welshpug 1,646]

That will suffice

 

I've popped some ZX 16v springs on a 205 recently, not sure how that will sit yet as there's no engine...

[pug_ham 243 3 Cars]

Just did a quick search for the post & found this one, looks like its long since gone.

 

g

[Anthony 1,002]

Thanks, that's spot on - if actually a little lower than I was expecting

 

Background to this is that I've fitted a set of 309 GTi springs to my 205 GTi-6, but because the car isn't yet driveable, the springs haven't settled (mine are currently sat a good inch higher than above!) and I had no idea what height I needed to build the beam to in order to match. Even without settling, the Eibach's were sat too low with the additional weight of the boat anchor up front, hence the change.

 

Out of interest, did either of you happen to see the original paint markings on your springs so I can confirm mine are definitely 309 GTi items? Mine appeared to be two light blue paint marks, which does tie up with one of the options listed on Servicebox under 309, but of course there's no reference as to whether that's a GTi or some other model spring.

You didn't perchance measure the free length of them?

 

Just that I have a set of original 205 springs here that I checked against a 306 DTurbo spring set earlier today.

 

gti was 330mm free length, 6 coils, 12.6mm wire diameter.

 

306 spring was 7 coils, 12.77mm wire, 430 mm free length

I've got the length, coil diameter and number of coil details for the 309 springs at home (along with Eibach and SBC) that I'll put up later for your Mei

I've popped some ZX 16v springs on a 205 recently, not sure how that will sit yet as there's no engine...

I would expect ZX 16v springs to sit far too high on a 205 though - I've got some ZX 1.9 8v springs here, but even they'll likely sit too high IMO.

[welshpug 1,646]

Its ok, its having even more of an anchor fitted than a gti6 lump.

 

The 306dt spring looked a good match, with a coil lopped off

[Anthony 1,002]

I've got the length, coil diameter and number of coil details for the 309 springs at home (along with Eibach and SBC) that I'll put up later for your Mei

Apologies that it's a little late, but here's the info:

 

Standard 309 GTi = 12.7mm coil thickness, 5.5 coils, and 310mm uncompressed length

SBC Roadspeed = 12.5mm coil thickness, 5.4 coils, and 260mm uncompressed length

Eibach 7001 = 12.5mm coil thickness, 6.5 coils, and 290mm uncompressed length

 

Hope that helps

[2052006 10]

This makes for interesting reading. I've come across this thread whilst searching various posts about suspension as I'm trying to figure out what to do with my car at the moment. I have SBC struts and springs on the front and have often thought the front might be a little low (it has a gti6 in the engine bay too). So is the general consensus that SBC road speed springs are to short with a comparitively heavy lump upfront? I guess they were designed for the lighter 8v.

 

I have never checked the angle of my wishbones before, and having read the "how not to modify your suspension " thread, I went out to have a look. They are, if anything, pointing ever so slightly upwards - from subframe to hub. This, I understand, is the opposite of how they should be positioned? And this would be caused by the front being too "low", I think?

 

Whilst quite happy with how the car drove, I always thought there was room for improvement, perhaps this was why. It's difficult to explain, but essentially, sometimes it didn't seem to "pivot" around corners too well, as though it felt a little unbalanced front to rear. Could just be understeer I suppose. Could a too low ride height at the front and wonky wishbones cause this?

[Anthony 1,002]

The wishbones being inverted certainly isn't ideal Pete, which is why I looked to raise mine when I put the '6 engine in, as the Eibach's (similar height to your SBC springs) just sat too low.

 

Interestingly, since fitting the 309 GTi springs - or atleast, what was sold to me as 309 GTi springs - it feels much softer at the front and very eager to cock a rear wheel at pretty much any opportunity in the dry! I thought I was imaging it initially, but my other half followed me earlier and confirmed that it is doing its best impression of a dog against a lamppost on any corner taken with any degree of vigour.

 

Amusing, but probably not ideal.... although I'm still wondering if they are 309 GTi springs as it's sat a little higher than the photos above (although not as high as my standard 1.9 GTi is). Can anyone confirm the paint markings if they're still visible on their 309 springs? Mine's two blue stripes, which does tally up as a 309 spring according to Servicebox, but of course there's no further detail beyond that.

[2052006 10]

What effect does that have on the handling then Anthony? Does it understeer more/less or just roll more or what?

[welshpug 1,646]

understeer less one would imagine, though the harder you throw it in the less rear grip you'll have, and more tyre roll on the loaded front wheel.

[Anthony 1,002]

Just feels far too soft at the front at the moment, meaning that it rolls over excessively on the front axle.

 

It grips OK at the front and turns in very well, just feels all wrong and doesn't inspire confidence - best way I can describe it is that it feels like the front ARB is disconnected! The rear wheel lifts high enough that you actually feel it drop back down with a thud, and if you really chuck it into a corner it starts to almost hop/bounce on the loaded outer rear wheel.

 

This is on the road. On track with the higher forces involved it would be woeful I suspect.

 

I need to find and source the massive oil leak the engine has before playing around with the suspension any more.