Rose Jointed Wishbones Again

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

You must use a locknut on the rose joint thread.

 

Also the head of that bolt you are using as a drop pin will not clear the CV joint, you will soon see when you fit it to a hub.

 

Not sure I am all that keen on what looks like MIG weld to weld the sleeve to the arm. I use TIG with a root run then 2 capping runs.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

I have lock-nuts, they were just not installed when the picture was taken. I've also machined the head of the drop pin since then to clear everything (standard 10.8 M16x1.5x70 bolt).

 

Rose joints are M20, and the hole has a reduction made on the lathe to an M16 drop pin.

 

Indeed it was Mig welded, not by me. This is one place I would not want to practice my welding.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Started removing the gearbox last night so took the opportunity to remove the wishbones for an inspection. Alls good apart from a tiny bit of movement in the offside joint which I'll replace.

Tom will correct me but I think they've done 10 rallies now, without boots and to be honest all they've had is the occasional power wash and a bit of chain lube, pretty neglected!

 

Happy chappy

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Bit of play in that joint is allowable after the bloody great bang it made when we ran into that bank

 

I suppose I should add, I made another pair of these wishbones for my track car, 100mph down the Craner Curves at Donington on slicks was a bit of a ring twitcher the first time when you've welded the wishbones yourself. But I'm not dead so all is OK. Same can't be said for the car that was driven into the wall later that day by a mate of mine who ran out of talent big time, but that is another story.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Oh s*it yeah! The tree stump incident.....

 

 

[welshpug 1,657]

Even more impressed the tyre is still up and not flatspotted the rim

Edited September 11, 2014 by welshpug

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

That was about 20 miles into a 100+ mile rally! It stayed up for weeks! gravel tyres are incredible things!

The story goes....Just before a corner I hit a stream across a dry road going..... we'll say 'briskly', I dabbed the brakes and it just locked up so my only option was to get off the brakes and try and make the bend. I used all my motocross talent (or lack of) to use a bank as a berm, it worked till I hit a tree stump! it literally felt like the front of the car had been ripped off but it felt fine and we just carried on!

 

I'm not sure what the moral of that story is?! I blame Tom!

[Mad Scientist 106]

Saw that with my own eyes at petrol halt! The picture doesn't do it justice!

 

These wishbones need testing on tarmac stage rallies............. :-)

[205wrc 16]

The replaceable ball joint (non -adjustable) modification has been done. Can only be done on a factored arm though as there isn't enough material on a standard arm to allow the end to be bored out to allow a spherical joint to be fitted.

Edited December 9, 2014 by 205wrc

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

I chose this thread (out of many) as being the most relevant for myself and due to the respected parties involved...

 

I've acquired these wish bones but as an amateur need some advice/help please.

 

 

 

From what I can see of the top hat washers/sleeves passing through the ball joint hole on Allens car, these don't pass all the way through, hence the need for a flat machined on the drop pin to accomodate and mate with the pinch bolt? these washers are for positive location of the drop pin?

 

Where do I source drop pins... or can a machining shop do the work required? and by using rose joints, oval hubs are a thing of the past? forgive the novice questions, I'm not an engineer... and should the nut of the drop pin use a washer or just clamp onto the rod end itself? thank you!

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

You need a drop pin with aflat machined on as you mention, the hubs will need relieving slightly to around where the head of the drop pin sits.

You'll also need two top hat washers to sleeve those rose joints down like on mine.

 

I can supply all the stuff is necessary.

Ovaled ball joints will indeed be a thing of the past, a well worthy mod that massively improves the car IMO

[welshpug 1,657]

not sure how changing the joint type but retaining a pin clamped by the hub surely still is just as susceptible as an original joint to ovalled/stretched hub clamps?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

No! Defo not! Through pin with a head so it's clamped up!

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

You clamp the assembly up axially with the pin, that means the pin will not try to rock in the clamp like the standard arrangement. If you are a chimpanzee and over tighten the pinch bolt then the clamp will still stretch but once the pin has been installed then there is no reason to touch the pinch bolt again.

[welshpug 1,657]

ahhhh gotcha!

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

It's all making more sense to me now, i.e. the sleeved pin won't rock in the clamp because it can't... I'm not a chimpanzee in respect that especially with brakes and suspension I'll always try to find the correct torque settings... visions of chimps in boiler suits torquing pinch bolts, heh heh!

 

Allan, if you can let me know some costs for supplying the drop pins, either 12.9 or EN steel, I'm sure both are up to the job, with top hat washers/sleeves and new pinch bolts if possible? then perfect, thanks. I can relieve the hubs to suit. I know the difference between UNF and metric threads but that's about it... I'm assuming my rod ends are 3/4... UNF?

 

Do I need two locking nuts on each rod end? These rod ends don't screw in fully, so not sure if they have been made longer to achieve negative camber which I wouldn't be happy about as I can achieve a little extra camber through the strut top mounts etc, I'd rather have them screw most of the way in and be the same as standard wishbones in this respect although I haven't compared them to the standard ones yet.

 

I know they will make a significant difference to the car, just worries me that all that is holding the wheel onto the car is a threaded rod.

[welshpug 1,657]

There's been a few different sizes of joints used so you need to measure up.

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

There's been a few different sizes of joints used so you need to measure up.

 

Best way/method for a chimp to do this? I'm clueless on how to do this....

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

You don't need two lock nuts no, as you say they're set pretty long for extra neg camber.

 

They do look like 3/4 UNF but you need to get yourself some vernier calipers and measure the inner diameter of the rose joint ball.

Will sort you a price tomorrow

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

I can buy calipers, about time I did anyway, thanks min, appreciated!

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

If you are not sure on the joint you could just remove one from the wishbone and post it to Allan, he can then make your bits to suit.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

To be honest accurate rule measurements would probably suffice

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

If you are not sure on the joint you could just remove one from the wishbone and post it to Allan, he can then make your bits to suit.

 

I think that is a good solution and gives Allan something tangible to work with, I don't mind to post if you can supply an address, couldn't see one on the Bridgecraft website?

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

Guessing this is how to measure them correctly?

 

 

0.62" or 15.6mm

 

These measurements make sense?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

5/8" is what you are measuring.