[Rally_Prep] 306 2.1 S16 Tarmac Rally Car

[welshpug 1,666]

more grip when cornering, they have about 1.2 degrees as standard.

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

more grip when cornering, they have about 1.2 degrees as standard.

 

I always thought it was only good for front tyres, about 1.5 degrees for road use and parallel for the rear, I'd heard it's not desirable on the rear but never really understood why, F1 for example, lot's of NC on the front and parallel on the rear.... I have visible NC on the rear of the 205 but I'm pretty sure it's not meant to be like that, had the rear beam refurbished about a year ago by a Peugeot garage so I'm not sure why it is like that,but am going to shortly solid mount the beam so will investigate the rest of it at the same time, anyway don't want to hijack this man's thread, still I'm not convinced about NC on the rear of a car...

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

 

I always thought it was only good for front tyres, about 1.5 degrees for road use and parallel for the rear, I'd heard it's not desirable on the rear but never really understood why, F1 for example, lot's of NC on the front and parallel on the rear.... I have visible NC on the rear of the 205 but I'm pretty sure it's not meant to be like that, had the rear beam refurbished about a year ago by a Peugeot garage so I'm not sure why it is like that,but am going to shortly solid mount the beam so will investigate the rest of it at the same time, anyway don't want to hijack this man's thread, still I'm not convinced about NC on the rear of a car...

Brilliant, You're comparing a 306s suspension geometry to an f1 car?! So why isn't it desireable on the rear, Even peugeot thought it was?! The 306 for example came with -1.2 degrees on the rear as standard, which coincidentally may be why your car has neg camber if they fitted later arms during the re-furb.

Jorgs car isn't a road car, it's a competition Tarmac car running soft tyres, the tyres require more camber to work properly plus it needs more neg camber to take into account tyre deflection.

Next time you go on circuit/fast drive have a feel of your tyre temps/wear across the rear tyre, even a photo of your car cornering quickly will give you an idea of what your rear tyres are doing. Going from -1.2 to -3 on the rear of my circuit car doubled tyre life alone!

 

An extreme example is some of the btcc fwd cars, they run so much camber on the rear they look broken! In a straight line only half of the rear tyre is touching the Tarmac

Edited August 26, 2013 by allanallen

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

i always thought of it as when you are entering the corner all the weights shifts to the outside wheels, witch means if the tyre had no camber there would be less grip?

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

camber thrust equates to roughly 10% extra "grip" produced from the tyre. A racing tyre usually produces this in the region of 1-3deg -ve camber in a loaded condition i.e all body roll onto tyre and suspension gemometry considered as well as tyre plunge. Check out some aussie V8 super car tyre plunge videos, you then get an idea for how much the tyre is working / moving. Its unreal! I think the run in the region of 6deg negative to cope with this amount of tyre movement. Camber also does some other funcky stuff with tyre stifness that we dont need to worry about.

 

F1 doesnt run too much rear camber beacuse they need the traction benifits and would risk overheating the inside edge I imagine. Remeber they dont roll much as they need to keep the aero working. And have the least compromised geometry being full double wishbone. May even gain -ve camber in roll. Aero is king!

[jorg 11]

well i finally took the bodies down to the garage so i could measure/plan the engine bay fuel lines. the lines have been made up and are ready to go in the car. I can't wait to get the fitted properly



still a lot to sort on them before i fire them up though. i have worked out i have 14cm of clearance between the bodies and rad so need to start looking into a filter setup.

i have finally found somewhere for the electric power steering pump to go, had to space the mounting bracket out to avoid the drain point on the rad though so that might be a pain in the backside at some point.



i decided to wanted the pump to run with the internal reservoir so i had to strip down both pumps i had and swop bits over. word of warning, don't take the mounting straps off the pump as they are a twat to get back on




the front suspension has been put together with my adjustable top mounts, just waiting for some good weather so i can get back down the garage and get them fitted.



also managed to track down some replacement front hoses for my 6 pot calipers, they are attached to a set of ap racing 8 pots calipers




they are bloody huge compared to the 6 pots, can't see them going under my 15 inch alloys




I have a pair of hi-spec universal brackets to mess around with tomorrow in the hope that i can finally get the 6 pots fitted.

[jorg 11]

had a go at sorting out the universal brackets i picked up for my calipers. a few minutes with the angle grinder and drill and i ended up with this



tested them behind the two sets of alloys I will be using most, TD 1.2's and 2's.






a 315mm rotor would definitely possible with the pro race 2's with these calipers, maybe even a 320mm if i offset the bell backwards a touch

as we are waiting for a satchshift to be made for the 306 i have bought the custom quickshift gearstick that came up for sale on the gti6 site. I missed out on this when it originally came up for sale ages ago when one of the members started his honda engine conversion. long term i still want a satchshift though

[welshpug 1,666]

16"?

[jorg 11]

no Mei, both sets are 15 inch

[welshpug 1,666]

brilliant, I think the 306 Touring cars ran 315mm behind a speedline 1508

[rallyeash 155]

Got a few details of the Tarmac rallying you plan on doing?

[309jazzpanda 41]

Excellent build fella, what are those seats mounted to?

[jorg 11]

brilliant, I think the 306 Touring cars ran 315mm behind a speedline 1508

 

if i wasn't using the pro race 1.2 alloys i would of gone for the biggest rotor possible. might have a play with the setup over the weekend and see what is actually possible.

 

Got a few details of the Tarmac rallying you plan on doing?

 

I will be sticking to events based in the North West and Northern Wales. The most used venues are the three sisters circuit in Wigan, Anglesey and the Weeton army camp.

 

Excellent build fella, what are those seats mounted to?

 

cheers mate the car has had seat bars installed so the side mounts attach to them.

[jorg 11]

Finally got round to spacing out the 6 pot calipers to see what the maximum size rotor I could fit behind one of my 15 inch alloys. The result was very interesting.....

 

 

325mm with a few mm's to spare!

[309jazzpanda 41]

Shame you didn't get out at the prom stages mate, Petes car (madscientist) sounded fantastic against the walls

[jorg 11]

Shame you didn't get out at the prom stages mate, Petes car (madscientist) sounded fantastic against the walls

 

i was gutted to miss out yet again, didn't even bother putting an entry in this year as i knew i would never finish the car in time. i was considering co-driving again but after the last two times i decided against it.

 

the quickshift gearstick I bought from fordygti on the gti6 forum arrived at lunchtime so i nipped down the garage to test it out. unfortunately i could not get it fitted properly as the holes in the floor need enlarging for the m8 bolts and i didn't take my drill with me. it didn't make too much difference as i am replacing the bolts with high tensile ones and they haven't come yet. as you can see in the last picture this stick is a good 4 inches higher than standard will do nicely until we get a 306 satchshift

 

 

can't wait to get it sorted

[309jazzpanda 41]

Very pretty gearstick

[jorg 11]

it only took 18 months but the car is now on the ground and off the axle stands




don't get too excited though as its only on the floor so i can tidy the garage and get the rear up in the air to sort the fuel lines and swirl pot under the boot floor.

the gearstick is now in fully working order. had to replace the skip brown gear selector with a genuine pug one (cheers kev) as the shift between gears with both fitted was just stupidly short. also fitted my hydraulic handbrake with homemade extended handle, think that will do the job!



had to get some new ap racing bell to rotor bolts as the first lot i bought were just too small



then had to run around like an idiot trying to find my e-sockets to fit the things. why i didn't go straight to my tool box i don't know :doh that was 30 mins wasted




if you are wondering why i have got marker pen drawings all over the rotor bell well i seem to have misplaced one of them and that is my spare which i use for measurements. need to get them all hard anodized at some point.

put some new bleed nipples on the 6 pots and then then put them on the car








the balljoint clearance with the rotor does look a bit tight in the last picture but its a bit misleading and is fine. also need to get hold of some proper balljoint and hub bolts, again i seem to have lost the ones i had

[rallyeash 155]

Awesome !

[jorg 11]

not as big of an update as i would of liked i'm afraid as i lost two days sorting out the HDi for its MOT. Just passed the handbrake test by 1% they are bloody useless things! Both garages have now been clean and all the shelves and parts i had lying about have been moved next door so i have plenty of spare to move around the car, it looks alot better now.

took a shot of the front camber, pretty sure thats the max possible with the top mounts i have fitted



the rear has now been lifted so i can sort out the swirl pot, bosch 044 fuel pump and the extra fuel lines. suppose i had better have ago at fitting the fox dampers too while i'm under there




i'm currently trying to sort out the fuel bulkhead fittings, never liked the idea of ramming four fuel lines between the gap in the tank so will be doing it another way. i have found a nice space to fit them but the cordless drill i have is a load of wank managed to get one of the four holes i need to drill done




the second picture is how its going to be fitted, the battery on my phone went before i could take a picture underneath the car but it clears everything quite nicely. just got to decide which swirl pot i am using and where on the boot floor its going

[welshpug 1,666]

as far forward as possible really, probably over on the right side as the exhaust is on the left, less likely to bang it on the floor/kerb/other random solid object, tank guard may also offer some protection.

 

Rich Walker does a swirl pot intended to sit under the boot floor of a 306 as it happens, upside down in this pic obviously.

 

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=151770

 

Edited January 17, 2014 by welshpug

[welshpug 1,666]

oh, searching on the 306 forum, it seems you had one of those two years ago

[jorg 11]

yep, got two of them

 

 

i have marked off where the exhaust was so i know the area i have to play with and i plan on covering it all up like prism7guy did with his on the gti6 forum. will have another play in the morning and take it from there.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Looks good jorg! What width discs are you running? Sorry if I missed it.

 

Isn't prism7's car flat bottomed rather than a cover for fuel system?

[jorg 11]

Cheers Allan. the discs are 300mm x 28mm. Pretty sure you are correct about prism7guys car, I was just using it as an example of how I am going to cover the pot and pump.