Starter Motor Problems

[madmover 0 1 Cars]

Old one is knackered, went to my local car spares shop and bought a new one but the teeth don't line up with the flywheel correctly and it just grinds.

 

Took it back and its the only one that they make for the 205 apparently. Went to another shop locally and same problem again.

 

 

Both have been smaller than the one taken off the car and weigh noticeably less.

 

Am I doing something wrong here? It's a 1.9GTI in a 1.6gti car (originally) but has a 1.9 box. If they are correct it shouldn't matter anyhow unless the flywheel has been changed? Something doesn't add up...

 

 

Andy

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

All XU engines share the same bolt pattern and fitment but they can vary in size. Doesnt matter if its a 1.6 1.9, diesel or gti-6 etc they should all fit and work fine. Are you 100% sure its bolting up correctly? Can you measure from the bolt flange to the nose on your original starter and see if they are the same? If the starter is much smaller could well be an xu10 item. A picture of the two would be useful.

 

Edit: Also might be worth checking the condition of the teeth on your flywheel, make sure none are missing or damaged.

Edited March 3, 2013 by j_turnell

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

I had an xu9ja 1.9 in mine and used a D6RA genuine starter from my ux10j2te (605 turbo) engine. Bolted straight in and worked a hell of a lot better than the original one and was almost half its size

 

Have you tested the starter off the car? Compare the teeth from the old motor to the new one, as said pictures will help diagnosis

 

Also check your gearbox to engine bolts particularly the rear on as they can come loose and create this annoying problem

[DamirGTI 342]

I have Mitsubishi starter from 206 GTi on my Ph1 1.9 - straight fit as well

 

Suppose the new ones which you've got from the shop are shimmed wrong (on the inside end of the rotor shaft , and outside end where's the ring gear which engages with the flywheel ..) hence the grinding noise ... it can be rectified by opening the starter unit and fitting smaller/larger shims as needed to index the correct distance of the starter ring gear with center of the flywheel .. but if it's new unit , i really wouldn't bother !

 

D

[madmover 0 1 Cars]

tested it off the car and it works fine as it should ie it spins up etc. Spoke to peugeot today and apparently there is 6 different variants but nobody can tell me what mine is as there is no part numbers on there or anything. they are all suggesting I take it to be rebuilt but I can see this costing 3x as much. Has anyone had one rebuilt/know roughly how much this should cost? the internals seem okay it appears to just be the casing and the cable linking the 2 sections together. Failing that does anyone know how to identify them?

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Andy

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Where in Warwickshire are you, there is a good place in Studley that repairs starters and alternators.

[Anthony 1,003]

All XU starter motors are interchangeable*, despite there being numerous different variants depending on model and age.

 

Are you sure that the starter ring gear is in good order and that the starter is definitely bolting up square and sitting nicely on the dowel? Seems unlikely that you would be supplied two starters with the same fault from different places, suggesting it's either a car or fitment issue IMO.

 

Most replacement starter motors will be the slim bodied type these days - they're much better than the other "fat" starter motors that were supplied as standard.

 

(* - that's not quite true in the case of S16 engines running the original ACAV as they need a special starter with the solenoid on the other side, and a few other considerations, but by and large you can swap them all around just fine and it's common for people to use late 306 1.8 and 2.0 starters on 205's)

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

There is also a place in Stockfield RD Yardley that rebuilds starters if your stuck, (Vehicle Electrics)

[botters 0]

rebuilds are generally at least half the price of "new" starters i put new in commas as most new starters are recons anyway!

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Just check the points myself and Anthony suggested as no mater what the starter motor is, if its for an xu it should fit, there is clearly another issue.

[PhilNW 44]

Seem to recall when I was looking for a starter that some starters i was offered had a difference in the number of teeth (9 being the norm?)

 

Suspect that some none 205 starters where being sold as 205's may be worth checking against existing

[chris-gti 14]

Just thinking outside the box slightly, your gearbox is fully tightened to the block isn't it? heard of this before where the box bolts work loose and the starter motor no longer engages properly on the flywheel.

 

What exactly was knackered on the old one? just electrical or was it mechanically damaged?

 

chris

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Guys,

 

Tried fitting an s16 starter to my mi16 BE3. Obviously the solinoid is 180 out,but it fits fine as I have ITBs. I saw this as a potential good things potential less heat soak from the block on track days.

 

Issues are that it is grinding badly. The dowel is in position. The distance between the dowel centre and the gear nose is the same. There is 9 teeth on both starters. The teeth shape looks nigh on identicle.

 

The gearbox was originally loose which we think killed the last starter. I.e it got stuck engaged on the last trackday and spun round to 7500rpm all afternoon.

 

This is now resolved. There is no significant damage to the ring gear.

 

The car will start with this starter motor so it isn't spinning the engine the wrong way.

 

Should I cut my losses and return this one and get another slimline one? I have had the blasted thing in and out about 6 times.

[welshpug 1,661]

does the engine also have its dowels in place?

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Good shout welshpug. I am not sure to be truthful. The bottom two bolts from the bell housing went MIA on the last trackday, leaving just the top two securing it. Operating the clutch obviously pushed the gearbox at an angle leaving a circa half inch gap at the bottom of the box. Not surprisingly the clutch wouldn't fully disengage hence we aborted the trackday at circa 4pm and loaded it on the trailer. At the time we assumed a stretched cable, it wasn't until we got it back and had dramas with the starter that we noticed(embarrassing!).

 

Currently I just sourced two more bolts and locktighted them in, assuming they would be in the right place. Where is the dowel in a d6c engine/1.6 BE3 bell housing?

 

Also has anyone else ever successfully fitted this starter motor. I am wondering if there is the tiniest difference in the teeth on the starter that is causing an issue?

[welshpug 1,661]

it wont be the starter itself unless its faulty.

 

the dowels go top rear and bottom front corners IIRC, the bolts only ever come loose because the dowels aren't present.

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Thanks welshpug for the swift response. I will ease the box off and check if they are in there. It is possible that only one was there when we changed the gearbox 3 seasons ago and thought that was normal. Constant abuse on track then caused the bolts to work loose and maybe we lost the other one.

 

I can use the parts catalogue to get their rough position.

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Just a quick update, nearly 5 months later (can you tell its not an every day car?!):

 

Gearbox dowels were both in position. I got a known good second hand 'fat starter' and tried that and it was absolutely fine. So I can only assume the slimline starter with the solenoid 180 degrees out is not compatible. Perhaps there was a small difference in the teeth shape, or stop point of the teeth was different.

 

The part number of the slimline that did not fit was:

 

Lucas LRS00737.

 

Anyone want a nice paperweight?