Whining From Cambelt Area - Help With Diagnosis?

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

When my pug (standard 8v XU) warms up there is whining noise that comes from the cambelt area. I whipped the top cover of to have a look and the condition of the belt looks good (it's only been on about 12 months) and the cam pulley is nice and secure. I then started to think it might be the tensioner (early spring loaded type) that is starting to fail so I proceeded to pull the lower cover off to get access. When pulling the covers off I've noticed the rubbing marks on the plastic covers shown in the piccies below (circled).

 

One on the inner lower cover, its hard to see on the pic but its started to tear a chunk out of the plastic:

 

 

And one on the outer cover:

 

​

 

Could this rubbing be what's causing the whining? What would cause the belt to rub when it gets warm? Faulty tensioner? Something not lined up right?

 

I've not got as far as removing the actual tensioner yet.

 

Cheers,

Dave.

 

 

[welshpug 1,662]

was the tensioner and water pump replaced when the belt was fitted?

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

was the tensioner and water pump replaced when the belt was fitted?

 

Yeah, belt, tensioner and water pump all about 12 months/750 miles old

[MikeC 10]

The belt looks to be pulled to the bottom of the pulleys due to one of them being out of alignment. How's your pump bearing?

[mikeygulley 19 1 Cars]

Has it whined since putting the belt on or has it just started?

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

The belt is in the correct place regarding where the shiny part is on the waterpump, id change the waterpump and the belt for sure tensioner should be fine

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Is the inner cover fitted securely & in the correct position?

 

Iirc there is a small amount of play which can put the inner cover out of place minutely & this can cause the whirring you can hear, I had it myself previously & it was just the cover was misaligned.

 

g

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

The belt looks to be pulled to the bottom of the pulleys due to one of them being out of alignment. How's your pump bearing?

 

As far as I know it's fine, but I haven't taken it off yet to check...

 

Has it whined since putting the belt on or has it just started?

 

When the belt, tensioner and pump were first fitted there was no noise...its only recently started to make the noise when it gets up to normal operating temp, there is no noise when its cold.

 

Is the inner cover fitted securely & in the correct position?

 

Iirc there is a small amount of play which can put the inner cover out of place minutely & this can cause the whirring you can hear, I had it myself previously & it was just the cover was misaligned.

 

g

 

Good question, I believe it is but as this is the only Pug I've done a belt on its hard to be sure. I'll check it's tight to the block this weekend.

 

It seems strange that its rubbing the inner cover and the outer cover?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Dave, simple answer is its slightly over tensioned, as the block and head heat up the alloy expands which makes the belt tighter, hence the whine only comes on when its hot.

The cambelt cover problem is common on 8v 205's as they get older and the plastic deteriorates, usually careful fitting and a bit of jiggling about solves the issue.

[kyepan 291]

the belt should run in the centre of the pulleys no?

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Dave, simple answer is its slightly over tensioned, as the block and head heat up the alloy expands which makes the belt tighter, hence the whine only comes on when its hot.

The cambelt cover problem is common on 8v 205's as they get older and the plastic deteriorates, usually careful fitting and a bit of jiggling about solves the issue.

 

I suppose that given it's the spring loaded tensioner there's no way of altering the tension, therefore it's just going to be a case of wiggling it around to get it clear of the covers then.

 

the belt should run in the centre of the pulleys no?

 

There's no chance of it running in the centre of the water pump. It's already bang in the centre of the cam pulley, tensioner and crank pulley.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

the belt should run in the centre of the pulleys no?

Not the water pump. Important one is the cam pulley. Belt location is controlled by the crank pulley anyway.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I suppose that given it's the spring loaded tensioner there's no way of altering the tension, therefore it's just going to be a case of wiggling it around to get it clear of the covers then.

 

I would try slackening off all the clamp nuts on the tensioner first and letting it find its own place, nip nuts up then see if its any better. More often than not though I find that the spring loaded tensioner doesn't get the belt tight enough.

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

I would try slackening off all the clamp nuts on the tensioner first and letting it find its own place, nip nuts up then see if its any better. More often than not though I find that the spring loaded tensioner doesn't get the belt tight enough.

 

Thanks Tom, I'll give that a try and see how it sits next to the covers.

[MikeC 10]

Sorry to jump in on this thread, but i was wondering which cover covers the water pump. I got covers for mine and still have a small bit showing (pump pulley)

Any ideas?

And sorry again d7ve_b

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Sorry to jump in on this thread, but i was wondering which cover covers the water pump. I got covers for mine and still have a small bit showing (pump pulley)

 

There is only one cover which will cover the pump in either the early or late style covers, they have a small bump in the cover which is shaped similarly to the pump as shown in Daves picture;

 

 

In the bottom right of this picture but this is the inside of the cover so the mark dave has ringing is where the front end of the belt is catching, not the back near the water pump & tensioner.

 

g

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Sorry to jump in on this thread, but i was wondering which cover covers the water pump. I got covers for mine and still have a small bit showing (pump pulley)

 

 

Any ideas?

 

 

And sorry again d7ve_b

 

No worries MikeC.

 

Update - I took the aux belt and crank pulley off to get a better look and I think I found part of the problem. It looks like the cover that sits behind the crank pulley is split behind one of the bolts and was flapping about (the crank pulley has minced some of the plastic). As a result I need a new one of these if anyone has one (I'll get a wanted ad up now):

 

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The 11mm bolt that holds the snapped section on is stuck tight in the block, so much so the head is now rounded:

 

​

 

I'm going to get the belt off one night this week and give it some heat and then get some mole grips round it.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Careful heating there as the crank seal isn't far away. I'd try hammering on a smaller socket or otherwise get yourself a set of Irwin nutgrips.

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Good call on the crank seal. Are those Irwin nutgrips worth their money? I saw them on ebay last night and was a little tempted...

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

The nutgrips are worth their weight in gold. They are one of the most useful things I have bought in recent years, you will never struggle with rounded bolt heads again.

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

That's some recommendation Tom! Might have to invest in some.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Machine mart also sell them, might be cheaper than eBay?

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Amazon look the cheapest so far but I need it quicker really, might just pick some up from screwfix as they're only a few quid dearer but I pass one on the way home from work.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Sounds a plan, for me once you factor in the hassle of getting a card through the door from the post office, and then having to make a trip to the godforsaken hole that is the sorting office to collect, the couple of extra quid to have them in your hand pronto is well worth it.

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Well the nut grips did the job, so much so that the bolt head has sheared off leaving the rest in the block

 

So two questions:

 

1. How would I go about drilling it out? Just use a smaller bit and drill down the middle to collapse the rest? Never done it before...

 

2. If it goes to s*it and doesn't come out, what's the view on running without the lower cover? I appreciate its a risk but with the other covers on and crank pulley it is mostly covered.