208 Gti "its Back"

[welshpug 1,657]

The result of what you mention, IS the 208, a very large amount of what it looks like is dictated by the safety regs.

 

I guess not many here have actually seen or sat in one, externally its smaller than a 206 but larger inside, the shell is said to be significantly stronger but also 40 kg lighter than a 207.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Comparisons of a newly released car to one designed in the late 70's/early 80's is flawed from the word go pure and simple.

 

Ask yourself, is the 205 a great car, or is it a great car in the context of what else was available at the time, or since, from other manufacturers?

 

In a similar vein, I personally would be far more interested in the 208 GTI tested against its contemporaries, and at a guess anyone out there in the market for a new hot hatch with any sense will also be interested in this.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I think WP has hit the nail on the head. He 'gets' it

 

I've said this so many times before, and I'll say it again. There will never be another car like the 205 GTI. Even if you could remove the factor of modern emissions and safety standards, a car like the 205 GTI just wouldn't sell strongly enough. Peugeot know that. So do all the other big boys. And that's why nobody would invest in it. Times have changed, and the public don't want a car like the 205 GTI anymore. It may have a healthy following of enthusiasts and motoring critics, but we are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the number of potential buyers required to make a production car viable.

 

And so we see cars like the 208. A modern take on a classic. It wants to emulate what made the 205 great, but it can't. It absolutely can't. It could be a great car in it's own right, but it will be different.

[kyepan 291]

I think the problems with the automotive industry are symptomatic of the mobile phone industry pre iphone.

 

Their so wrapped up in the wrong things, trying to out do each other on such a banal and pointless level, causing customer obsession over pointless features that have dubious application and merely detract from the driver experience and the point of driving, reliably getting from a to b quickly, safely, and with the minimum of cost.

 

I'm not just talking about features here either, materials, and approach to design.

 

The disposability of the current generation of cars is astonishing, the over use of plastics, complex electronics that break after a few years rendering the car financially scrap. Combine that with the continued reliance on rusty old steel as the main structural component when composites are really only a few percent more expensive, corrosion resistant etc.

 

Someones going to come along, build something radically different, out of the best materials, it won't do 90 percent of what modern cars to, but it will get amazing economy, and probably will end up costing a similar amount, perhaps a bit more.

 

The only reason this won't happen, is the dogmatic safety legislation and legislation full stop that surrounds the automotive industry, choking it of any real innovation.. and the car companies want to keep selling disposable drinks cans with new widgets that take your mind off their ever increasing waistline.

 

Consume, consume, worship the idol.. consume...

[GLPoomobile 958]

The disposability of the current generation of cars is astonishing,

 

Funny, this crossed my mind just a couple of days ago.

 

I've been aware for some time just how common it is these days for people in the UK to be driving around in cars on credit/hire purchase/lease plans etc (look at the amount of young drivers in relatively expensive cars). And so it occurred to me that one reason for this move to "disposable driving" is the complexity of maintenance on modern cars.

 

Home spannering is just nowhere near as simple as a couple of decades ago. Trips to a properly equipped and skilled garage are more necessary these days, even for something as mundane as replacing a blown bulb. And so, with the price of parts, the dependency on complex electrical systems, and the price of labour, cars are now bloody expensive to maintain if you are paying it for yourself. It's for this very reason that I've strongly considered swapping my company car allowance for an actual company car instead. I'm just not surprised that many drivers take the risk averse approach of paying for a new car on a monthly plan, that includes maintenance.

 

But even then, all these cars find their way on to the 2nd hand market eventually. And that was what lead me to the thoughts above - the idea of spending a few grand on a used car made this side of the millennium makes my arsehole pucker. I think you either have to be aware that future bills can (and likely will) be very expensive, and have the spare cash for that eventuality, or you take the bangernomics approach and ditch it as soon as the first big bill rears it's ugly head.

[Batfink 201]

Gordon Murray cannot seem to get his cars into production - no-one wants a radical 'iphone' overhaul

[kyepan 291]

It would take someone with the economic and muscle of apple and single mindedness of steve jobbs to change that.

Edited January 31, 2013 by kyepan

[S@m 156]

Whilst it is obvious that you cannot make a car like the 205 anymore as people have said - it is Peugeot themselves who make the comparison (i'm sure that we would anyway as would some motoring journalists) when they make adverts like the one above and the "I'm back" tagline. They need to step away from the 205 and build a car that stands on its own without some nostalgic hope that it can emulate what we love about our cars.

[kyepan 291]

Whilst it is obvious that you cannot make a car like the 205 anymore as people have said

I have to disagree, using modern materials and a philosophy different to the current automotive industry, you could make a car very "like" the 205, but much much better. This is the whole point i'm trying to make.

 

You could also make it last longer.. be more fuel efficient, more aerodynamic, more stable, lighter, faster... etc.

 

would it sell? different question, thats a confidence question, a marketing question, I think it could be sold, very successfully.

 

If it was demonstrably better in every way that most other cars, but not better than them on their terms - if you get my meaning. People who see through the marketing low fat spread on top of the bread.... would want it.

[S@m 156]

I see your point and I did choose my words poorly, i should not have said "cannot make a car like the 205",instead i should have said "cannot sell a car like the 205". I really don't believe that people want small, light and efficient these days - they want air con, sat nav, bluetooth, electric everything etc. etc. etc.

 

Just imagine what the modern engines could do economy wise if you stripped all the needless chaff from modern cars!

 

Sam

[GLPoomobile 958]

I really don't believe that people want small, light and efficient these days - they want air con, sat nav, bluetooth, electric everything etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

Nail well and truly hit on the head

[kyepan 291]

they want air con, sat nav, bluetooth, electric everything etc. etc. etc.

 

 

Yes, they do, and i'm not arguing that and sorry to use this example again. Before the iPhone came along people wanted more megapixel cameras with a million settings, mms messaging, Bluetooth *, contacts sync, pc suite, endless settings for things you don't care about or understand. Apple** used billet aluminium where plastic injection moulding was de-riegeur, gave you a big glass display..they got rid of everything above too.. they broke all the rules, and then used those clever adverts to point out how silly the market really was.

 

 

Just imagine what the modern engines could do economy wise if you stripped all the needless chaff from modern cars!

Yes, imagine.. how amazing would that be.. I'd give my left nut to work on a project like that.

 

*apple added bluetooth in later iphones, but it was omitted initially.

* a bit later on

 

Who do you market it to? the squeezed middle class, struggling to make ends meet, sick of rising fuel prices, rip off garages, road tax..maybe.. i'm not sure... they're so in the rat race looking up at the aspirational high rise Chelsea tractors... they probably won't bite

 

But there would be followers, fanatical, and courageous.. and that's the important bit.

 

Who wouldn't buy it - my xc90 driving sister and her suburban cohort.. but they didn't buy the first iphones, the key influencers had to do that first.

 

This is how it works...

 

When the risk drops - they won't be ridiculed, and they'll join to be the in crowd.

 

So we're kind of talking about gorden murray as the shirtless dancing guy, bearing in mind he danced for about 30 mins before this vid was taken.

Gordon will be on his own for a good while longer, but someone will support him eventually.

J

Edited January 31, 2013 by kyepan

[Batfink 201]

The modern car engine has been strangled by one thing. The Catalytic converter and the false ideology that this is a good thing

[S@m 156]

The modern car engine has been strangled by one thing. The Catalytic converter and the false ideology that this is a good thing

Don't get me started, i had the enviable experience of proof reading a friends dissertation that was solely about the effects of platinum pollution from catalytic converters on certain aquatic organisms and whether or not it was outweighed by their effect on emissions. Now that's a fun time!

 

 

...and what was the original topic about again?

Edited January 31, 2013 by Sam306

[24seven 104]

 

 

Yes, they do, and i'm not arguing that and sorry to use this example again. Before the iPhone came along people wanted more megapixel cameras with a million settings, mms messaging, Bluetooth *, contacts sync, pc suite, endless settings for things you don't care about or understand. Apple** used billet aluminium where plastic injection moulding was de-riegeur, gave you a big glass display..they got rid of everything above too.. they broke all the rules, and then used those clever adverts to point out how silly the market really was.

 

 

Yes, imagine.. how amazing would that be.. I'd give my left nut to work on a project like that.

 

*apple added bluetooth in later iphones, but it was omitted initially.

* a bit later on

 

Who do you market it to? the squeezed middle class, struggling to make ends meet, sick of rising fuel prices, rip off garages, road tax..maybe.. i'm not sure... they're so in the rat race looking up at the aspirational high rise Chelsea tractors... they probably won't bite

 

But there would be followers, fanatical, and courageous.. and that's the important bit.

 

Who wouldn't buy it - my xc90 driving sister and her suburban cohort.. but they didn't buy the first iphones, the key influencers had to do that first.

 

This is how it works...

 

When the risk drops - they won't be ridiculed, and they'll join to be the in crowd.

 

So we're kind of talking about gorden murray as the shirtless dancing guy, bearing in mind he danced for about 30 mins before this vid was taken.

Gordon will be on his own for a good while longer, but someone will support him eventually.

J

 

Haha, that video is brilliant! Not arsed about the cars anymore, this thread should be about that.

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Did you know that only the basic 208's have a CD player?

 

Just a random point

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

No matter what any Peugeot or motoring press say, as already made clear they will never recreate the 205 GTI for several reasons all regarding safety imo, much the same with the re-incarnation of the Mini in BMW's hands, a good modern replica but very little that's actually continuing with the same principal of that model.

 

But, if the 208 GTI drives anything like the Citroen DS3-R , then at least things are looking up with Peugeot chassis control & interaction.

 

It is funny that the tv ad shows much more of the 205 GTI than it does the 208 GTI, obviously keeping things under wraps, oh & notice they have adopted the lower case i

 

g

[S@m 156]

 

But, if the 208 GTI drives anything like the Citroen DS3-R , then at least things are looking up with Peugeot chassis control & interaction.

 

I was under the impression that it was just a DS3-R with a Peugeot badge so should be more or less identical - are there more differences under the skin i wonder?

 

Sadly i am yet to drive a ds3-r, only got as far as the 150thp, the manager will only let me drive the R when he can drive my 205 - and that is not going to happen!

Edited February 1, 2013 by Sam306

[Jemehan 3 1 Cars]

The idea you cannot make another 205 may be correct, but thinking logically, yes you could make something similar size, shape and Stoll sell it. The smart car is a damn good example of this, look at their barabus, its small and made mainly of plastic. You could easily recreate the 205 and modify the shape a little for aero dynamics, drop a decent engine in there and boom, a modern 205 that sells within the same market as a smart car, I don't see why this wouldn't be possible at all...

[welshpug 1,657]

That'll be the 107, same wheelbase and similar track widths, however due to safety regs much smaller inside.