[Rally_Prep] 205 Rallycar Nut And Bolt Rebuild

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

thought I had better start a progress page as I've had alot of facebook friends telling me to do so as I've dedicated the next 6 months to completely rebuilding my 205 rally car which has a bit of a history!

 

It all started in 2004 when my brother (who might post on this username occasionally) was attempting to make a career from rallying and came 2nd in a scholarship to find the next 'star' of uk rallying. In mid 2004 the car was built and finished by Christmas 2004. It was build for Ed to do the 205 challenge. He had a good year but 2 results not quite going his way cost the championship and he ended up 3rd after missing the final round. That was the end of the career hunting stage of his rallying and he went out to do 'for fun' events.

 

2007 saw Ed compete on our local single venue at Down Ampney, Cirencester. He clipped a bale at arouund 60mph on the wing mirror which came in and his his 1st time navigator Dan in the face! 20 odd stitches and lots of blood later and the car was dragged home and left in the state it was in, blood, glass and a football sized dent in the quarter panel from another incident!

 

The car was put behind a barn in a field and left to rot.

 

Come 2010 and Ed decided he fancied getting the car out for a bit of a play and maybe one last rip round Down Ampney. Not surprisingly Dan wasn't too keen on navigating! We got the car out of the field and set about prepping it in 3 weeks for the event.

 

when it came out of the field it looked like this:

 

 

 

 

within 3 weeks it looked immaculate but i can't find the shots so a shot from a week later taking an unconventional line round the first hairpin at pugfest

 

 

I've taken over the car at this point and started doing most of the work and using it most. To date i've done 2 rallies, 2 rallysprints and about 5 trackdays at Combe, mainly due to a distinct lack of funds (my other hobby which demands cash is photography!)

 

some pics from events i've done:

 

 

 

the car cut out after a fast watersplash at sweetlamb which produced this entertaining shot of me being pushed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

then this hampered me 2 weeks before my first event of 2012:

 

 

so the decision was taken to pull the entry and look into engine options as until then the engine and box had been standard and whilst i got some good results in the car the risks i was taking to keep up were getting a little daft, even only on airfield events! more power and better gearbox were needed but unfortunately my summer job of pratting about in over £100k's worth of below got in the way:

 

 

On my return from the farm in late october 2012 a Chance phone call to Dan (nav mentioned above) revealed that there might be a space to turn into a workshop for rent on his farm near stroud. I went to see it at the first chance and the decision was made! Hello double car workshop:

 

 

 

then time to move my donor car in next to the rally car:

 

 

The space needed lots of work to turn into a workshop so on we went with kitting it out:

 

crawler board...

 

 

 

old womans trolley converted to welder trolley

 

 

I took the engine from the car which is an ex Marcus Dodd (british rally champion) 106 cup car engine giving around 145 bhp. This engine mated to a be4r from a xsara picasso with a choice gearset should woork nicely so onwards we went:

 

 

along with taking the engine out the wiring was labelled and salvaged. everything else from the car is/was being/sold.

 

some pics:

 

saxo wiring:

 

 

i'll be needing this:

 

 

205 wiring:

 

 

 

 

shiney new billies:

 

 

so basically I've decided to fit a tu5j4 (106 cup car) engine with a be4r gearbox. However!!! As i've been stripping bits off the car to do the swap i've carried on stripping bits and have been thinking more and more that it's worth giving the whole thing a massive complete rebuild!

 

So in 2 weeks i've gone from facing a tricky engine swap to doing a bare shell rebuild.

 

This progress blog will cover as much of the work as i remember to photograph but basically i'd quite like it done in 6 months.

 

plans are:

 

rebuild every component. renew anything that needs renewing inc:

paint inside, outside and underneath

welding to rust proof and sort out rust patches

tidy bodywork

fit tu5j4 and be4r

run billies front and rear

rebuild all brakes and renew copper lines with aeroquip lines

rebuild beam

chop out drivers seat rails and fit new but lower

add to cage (x door bars)

 

Today was rubbing down internally and investigating/looking for rust patches along with a spot of welding with my gopro hd 2 mounted to the welding lance...

 

 

 

 

That's it for now and probably this week but i'll be doing a bit each week and with the help of the missus, marcus my navigator and my brother this should be done in no time atall (yeah right!)

 

Cheers

Charlie

[dcc 855]

That looks tastey!

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

Cheers Daniel. It'll be slow progress but hopefully should give a good 7-10 years of rust free 205 life that has a bit of get up and go!

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

Been flat out at work this week so expect an update tuesday/wednesday. Jobs in the coming weeks are predominantly body work, bit of welding depending how much rust i find and lots of drinking coffee standing infront of the space heater!

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

looks like that car has taken some fair abuse from rallying be good to see it all fresh

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

to be honest John it's not too bad, the floor is a bit bent in places but the 4 wheels are straight. It just needs some tlc, fortunately it was a fresh build in 2004/5 so the dreaded rust is barely a problem

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

not too bad then! it can always be cut out and replace with fresh steel if its damaged

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

not managed to get too much further on this due to various commitments over xmas.

 

couple of pics:

 

to do list which equates to probably 1/10th the build!

 

lovely rust in the windscreen area (abover wiper motor) that was hidden by the seal

 

engine bay coming along nicely:

 

 

spent £30 on some timber and knocked up a decent workbench (vice now added)

 

The mrs wanted to learn how to weld:

 

couple of holes in 2 skylights are letting in a lot of water onto both cars...drastic measures given the amount of rain we've had

 

I had a chat with Dan my landlord about the longevity of my workshop and he said he'd be needing it back in 18/24 months time which is a real blow...However, he said he may have another barn i could move into:

I've properly fallen for the building, it's stuning (or could be) and has so much more potential. Jobs would obviously be to clear it out, knock the boarded up windows out and put polycarb panels in place, a general tidy and lick of paint, oh and concreting the floow It's about 18 foot wide by maybe 60 foot long, It'd make an amazing workshop with a bit of time and effort (oh and about £900's worth of work!

 

More progress on the bloody car should be coming soon.

 

Be4r box is being built up at the moment, need to find the exact mount to use for the top engine mount then will be offering up the engine/box and shafts. Suspension stuff has arrived just need to order solid top mounts and some pairs of springs. Digital dash is an on going research topic at the moment!

 

Cheers

Charlie

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

Looks like a good project. I don't see the 4 round holes in the sills, for the rally stands that you see on most newer rally cars. Is it worth trying to put them in since you already have the welder out and need to paint the engine bay anyhow? They are a handy job when you get used with them, and it leaves underneath free to work at on service and easier to put the guards on underneath.

 

What sort of cars are you up against in your local scene? I know over here in N.I it is a 1.6 16v 2wd open class, meaning your up against Toyota corolla twincams with vauxhall engines putting out around 200 at the back wheel and also Honda civics with similar power.

[welshpug 1,661]

all the Corolla’s are out in Ireland!

 

There are a few Honda's but not many running big power. Thankfully for charlie all of Sandy's current TU's over here are in circuit cars

 

 

mainly 8 valve 205's, corsa's, nova's saxo's and 106's.

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

I've looked into sill stands and they look great and work well on flat (i mean very flat) surfaces but the general opinion is they're rubbish on anything but a tarmac car park so i'll be leaving them off.

 

Competition is mainly as Meirion says, 8v 205's, saxo/106's corsa's and a few RWD escorts.

 

I wouldn't mind sandy's tu's being in rallycars as i only do really s*itty/slippy events so i think the surface would be a good leveller of power vs grip (no offence to Sandy meant btw i know his stunning quality of workmanship) as 145/150bhp can often match with 180 + on wet/s*it covered concrete and in the woods. It'd be interesting to see though

 

Now if Sandy made a propper gravel engine for a tu 1600 i'd be worried!!

Edited December 29, 2012 by c_robinson

[welshpug 1,661]

I know he has done a rally engine, but think it runs on tar, different to his circuit engine though.

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

Ah that's not so bad then. Yeah if your doing loose or slippy conditions then that engine you have is ideal. Had a 106 cup car hired for a day earlier this year (not a good one though), but it had plenty of go in it for what it was.

 

 

There isn't so many rally car corolla's (more road cars) Mei, but more so escorts everywhere, and its now at the stage where 300bhp isn't enough anymore and there are some getting to, if not already at 350bhp now!!

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

keep it up, i see you over on welding forum

[Sandy 191]

The only TU rally engine I've got out in on the mainland currently is Dan Gray's pretty basic 1400 8v! There's a cracking 1600 16v TU I built almost 2 years ago in a car that hasn't got on its wheels yet and a 1600 16v EW that's now up and running, but likely to be tarmac only I think. I totally agree that car/driver (and to a great extent engine flexibility) is more important than outright power, Julian Wilkes' engine isn't as powerful as alot of people think.

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

absolutely right Sandy. so long as your rally engine's stay on the clean tarmac i'll be happy!

 

Am i right in thinking you used the standard xs top mounting arm to mount the tu5j4 in a 205 shell?

[Sandy 191]

Post 1990 TU arm is the same for all, because they all had the XU wing panel after 1990. You need to hack it out a bit to clear and use bolts rather than studs. It helps if you take the lip off the belt cover behind the exhaust pulley, so the cover can slide forward for removal, rather than outwards. The arm is longer than the earlier one. It's still available (183920, £94), but ultimately a steel one made to fit will be much stronger.

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

I had a chat with colin about his steel version and what i'm intending is to mount the engine using the XS arm, then hold the engine in place with an engine steady between the wings and remove the xs arm, and line up Colin's mount and do the welding myself.

 

We agreed that despite the fact it'd be good to get together and have a laugh at our 106 mate from the south it's a damm long way for Dave to do an hours welding! I'll get the engine mounted with the £10 ebay xs arm and then go from there.

 

Thanks for your reply Sandy, much appreciated!

 

Cheers

Charlie

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

bought quite a few bits over the last few weeks so progress can be made in jan and february with the intent to get the car rolling and running by march kind of time.

 

Will stick some pics on in the next few days

[adman 5]

Hi Charlie was it you i met at latton a few weeks ago, when me and my mate wayne were out there acting like hooligans trying to break(quite sucsessfully) our yellow 205

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

yes it was Adam, glad you guys had a good day up there. What was the verdict on the fault on the car in the end, s*it in the alternator would be my guess?

[adman 5]

that was a fault yes but also holed the sump and knocked out 1 of the big ends and we finished of the rear beam. I've sorted the hooligan induced faults now and we had another shakedown at keevil airfield a couple weeks after that which gave me a couple extra jobs to do but its all good fun. I think we are going to get a few track days in and prep for the bumpy stuff as funds allow but we will be back out there again at some point. Loving the build looks like your going to be busy for a while.does this mean there's going to be a 1.6 box with a nice diff going at a good price soon. if so may be interested if the price is right.

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

there will be a be1 but no diff and final drive as i'm using the f/d in my new box for time being and the diff's foobared!

 

holed sump? how did that happen?!

[adman 5]

at the back of the track where the little jump is wayne took of and landed in a rut with an almighty bang and only had a flimsy sump guard on it. that should teach us to stop acting like hooligans in it, well for a while at least. Was after the diff more than anything but we're using a be3 any way

[c_robinson 8 1 Cars]

just a quick one before a trip to autosport show to buy lots of goodies