List Of Parts That Are Req For A Gti6 Inplant In 205 Gti

[gouldy491 1]

hi im new to the 205 gti 1.6 and have just got my first.

Its in paint shop as im typing. Im after fitting a GTI6 in it but would like to know more

like do i use the 6 speed box aswell and what parts would i need to buy to make this an easy project.

do i need some special advice or is this simple any help please.

 

thanks from newbie

[Tesstuff 222]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=122758

 

Take a look here.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=120874

 

And here.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Tesstuff

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Search is your friend here as said, There is more pages than you could take in over a couple of nights

[Mad Scientist 106]

You will definitely need a gti 6 engine.

[SurGie 54]

Or a Xsara VTS engine which tend to be less ragged about and has the preferred gearbox imo.

 

BBM engine mounts, not necessary but preferred imo,

VSS speedo sensor with a 3 pin plug,

Converted engine loom,

Possible lowered rad using home made plates to lower it with,

Either wedge the lower part of the servo/pedal box so the master cylinder fits over the back of the engine. Or as most people do, file the edge of the cam cover enough for it to fit,

MI16 clutch,

Unlocked ECU and a good working ecu/fuel feed relay that is usually at the back of the 306 gti6 ECU box. To unlock one you have to start the car then unplug the ECU, which unlocks it,

Best advised to replace the cam belt while you are there,

You could add a lightened fly wheel for easier flow of the revs, you can buy one from rich w off the 306 gti6 forum,

The original crank pulley has a sort of rubber fixing of which turns during its life, so the timing hole usually doesn't match. You can buy a lightened one that will always match from rich w again,

You an use the original fuel pump

 

I think thats about it.

 

Its always best to read through a couple of project threads on here and make a list as you go along, thats what i did.

 

Hope this helps

Edited December 11, 2012 by Anthony

[SurGie 54]

Whilst fitting a more powerful engine, most people fit bigger brakes, ie the gti6 brakes. You can use the 205 1.9 master cylinder but the gti6 doesn't use the same sized master cylinder, so for a better brake pedal feel iv used the 406 master cylinder.

 

Again the gti 6 uses an electronic VSS type sensor for the ECU or at least it helps the ECU, i fitted my old original 205 gti speedo cog and new speedo cable so you get a good reading, the speedo reading can flutter, fitting a new one should solve this problem.

 

It all depends on how well you want this conversion fitted. There are quite a few ways of doing it all yes, either properly or as a workable bodge its up to you. Its those tiny little mods that can make all the difference to your conversion.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Anthony

[Anthony 1,003]

Also worth noting that whilst the basic engine is the same on a Phase 2 Xsara VTS, there are numerous parts that need to be changed or additional parts purchased to use in a 205 compared to the earlier Phase 1 VTS and all 306 GTi-6 models. Whilst this isn't an issue if you're replacing say a blown engine on an already converted car, be warned that it can add to the costs and hassle if you have to souce them all to do a conversion from scratch if you're using standard GTi-6 management (less of an issue if you're using aftermarket management and ITB's).

 

Off the top of my head, the following parts are different on the Phase 2 VTS engine:

 

ECU

Wiring loom

Exhaust manifold

Injectors

Fuel pressure regulator

Top engine mount arm

MAP sensor

Knock sensor

Oil pressure switch

Coolant temperature sensor

Lambda sensor

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Also, don't forget the aux belt, roller and tensioner. Quite costly!

[welshpug 1,657]

OR the S16 setup...

[SurGie 54]

I used the old aux belt that was already fitted to my old S16 2.0 engine. I used my old cam belt tensioner bolted to the side of the engine mount/bracket, this when tensioned tightened the aux belt. Once engine is fitted you can measure the sort of length you need and go to your local motor factors with the measurement and im sure they will find one suitable.

 

Also the VTS/GTI6 gearbox needs the flat BE3 gear rod arm too not the dog leg, replaced for ease not do-ability, otherwise its far easier to use the 205 gearbox.

 

Also make sure you use either the original fuel pipes that are around the fuel rail with the green/white plastic joins or if renewed use the same size, 10mm for the feed and 8mm for the return pipes.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Anthony

[SurGie 54]

 

If something works very well and as it should then why would it be classed as a bodge ?

 

I didnt mean to cause any offense when i used the word bodge before.

Edited December 10, 2012 by SurGie

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Plenty of people run the above setup no problem

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Why over complicate things with an unnecessary pulley

 

[SurGie 54]

Recycling what you already have, i guess it would take time to either make or source that bit. I used some loctite for the pulley bolt just in-case it decided to come undone.

Edited December 10, 2012 by SurGie

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

Alanalan, the issue is, a lot of folk want to keep the power steering pump

[Anthony 1,003]

In simple terms, the basics that need doing with a GTi-6 conversion are as follows:

 

• Converting the wiring loom for use in a 205 (either do it yours or buy one ready converted)

• Converting the tacho so that it works (either with a tacho converter or modifying the tacho itself)

• Reangling the exhaust manifold (saves having to modify bulkhead or tilt engine)

• Modifying the downpipe to mate up with the manifold, and adding a lambda boss (either do it yourself or buy a ready done one)

• Adapting cooling system pipework to suit (BakerBM offer a silicon hose kit for this purpose)

• Modifying radiator cowling and slam panel to give clearance (similar to Mi16 conversions)

• Fitting 405/BX 1.9 Mi16 clutch if using 205 gearbox with push type clutch release. If using a later gearbox (eg VTS) then either keep the pull type clutch and adapt the clutch cable to suit, or change the gearbox over to a push-type clutch arm.

• Assuming engine originally had AC, changing aux belt setup to suit (either alternator only or alternator and PAS, different methods for both)

• Creating clearance around master cylinder (very much a factor of shell tolerances, and some cars need more work than others)

• Fitting suitable air filter / induction kit

• Adding an oil pressure gauge sender to the engine (assuming it's not from a Phase 1 GTi-6)

• Obviously giving it a full service with cambelt kit, waterpump etc before fitting (don't rely on crank pulley timing hole being correct!)

That's the basics, all of which have been discussed at length before and pages of useful info on them will be revealed with a search - in particular, as mentiohed above, there's quite a few project threads that detail things and how they solved the above issues (as there's various ways you can go about it in some cases)

[jamie_1992 66 1 Cars]

Most important don't under estimate the amount of work that is required do your research take your time to gather the parts you need and allow plenty of time if sending parts away to be modified then you will have a very nippy car that will be reliable (as long as you do things proberly) and a lot less agro compared to just lashing it together and thinking "that will do" and remember it always costs more than want you plan those little bits soon start to add up

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

As mentioned there are dozens of threads showing different ways of doing things. I would recommend you read several and come up with a list of what needs to be done and how you personallu intend to achieve it by deciding which way to do things. You can then begin to source the parts you need - and in the correct logical order if not all at once.

 

It's a good idea to jot down some prices for each stage and see where your money is going. All to often I see people spending out on say a loom and re angled manifold for example but then resort to buying an eBay clutch and cobbling old coolant hoses together because they feel they have spent to much previously but need to get it finished.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Alanalan, the issue is, a lot of folk want to keep the power steering pump

Yep I know, the car I pictured runs power steering I was merely trying to point out (in a blunt manner) that there's several ways to skin a cat.

 

[gouldy491 1]

I must thank everyone that's posted info on this post and I will have a lot of reading to do before I start spending money. Thanks Anthony your list is very helpfull. I would like to know how I can ID phase 1 or 2 can this be done by year ?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

I'm also one for using the simplest methods and in a lot of cases I completely alter or re-make parts to make them simpler/less likely to fail/lighter/etc. What's simple to one man isn't always simple to another though, clearly.

 

My post was merely to show a different method, your method was unacceptable for my application. It would add an extra moving part that could potentially fail and I couldn't recycle my cambelt tensioners as they were knackered, hence replacing them......

 

Again rather than buying a t-piece for the oil sensors I 'recycled' my gti6 oil pressure light sensor by turning it into an adaptor to fit the oe 205 item. Not everyone is going to be able to do this but it's much nicer than the t-piece method and I certainly didn't need any rtv.

As Ive said in the past I'm happy to modify these for anyone for free!

 

Gti6 coolant sensors work fine, no need to swap them.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Anthony

[ORB 227 1 Cars]

I like that! Looks much neater and OE.

 

(I assume you are running a Saxo elec PS pump?)

 

 

[SurGie 54]

Whether it looks better isnt the point as it will be hidden when all fitted back together. As for the coolant sensors, as recomended by Miles i used them to get a more accurate reading, 205 sensors for the 205 reading. Plus the above adaptor means you can add on another oil sensor if needed.

 

Lots of people have used their old tensioner with no problems, so i doubt it would fail any time soon, it only tensions the aux belt not the high tensioned cam belt, big difference i think. Mine is the better recomended tensioner that uses the 136 toothed cam belt set up, not the weaker 137 toothed cam belt tensioner.

 

I guess making the above bit is easy when you have the means to make one, for the average joe it would take too much time and effort.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Whether it looks better isnt the point as it will be hidden when all fitted back together. As for the coolant sensors, as recomended by Miles i used them to get a more accurate reading, 205 sensors for the 205 reading. Plus the above adaptor means you can add on another oil sensor if needed.Lots of people have used their old tensioner with no problems, so i doubt it would fail any time soon, it only tensions the aux belt not the high tensioned cam belt, big difference i think. Mine is the better recomended tensioner that uses the 136 toothed cam belt set up, not the weaker 137 toothed cam belt tensioner.I guess making the above bit is easy when you have the means to make one, for the average joe it would take too much time and effort.

Do you actually read anyone's posts properly? If you read mine properly you'd realise a defensive reply wasn't necessary.

As for things taking 'too much time and effort', I guess that's what seperates a good conversion from a bad one.

 

 

 

I like that! Looks much neater and OE.

 

(I assume you are running a Saxo elec PS pump?)

 

Yep saxo pump on mine, I felt it made for a tidier simpler conversion. It's fitted under the expansion bottle so the added weight of the PAS is beneficial (distribution wise), the piping is much shorter/neater and it has the added benefit of being able to turn it off on some circuits and on without the engine running for pushing the car around

And before you say anything surgie, this isn't necessarily the 'best' or 'right' way to do it, it's the way I did it.

Edited December 11, 2012 by allanallen

[Anthony 1,003]

Thanks Anthony your list is very helpfull. I would like to know how I can ID phase 1 or 2 can this be done by year ?

If you're looking at a complete car, it's fairly straight forward as it coincides with the facelift - biggest giveaway from a distance is the headlights, which are rectangular-ish on the early car and triangular-ish on the newer car. In terms of year, Phase 1 is upto 2000, and Phase 2 is 2001 onwards.

 

This is a Phase 1 VTS and This is a Phase 2 VTS

 

If the engine is out of the car, then it's slightly more tricky to ID from a photo, although easy enough when you're in front of it. Easiest giveaways are as follows:

• The ECU and loom has a single connector on a Phase 1, and three connectors on a Phase 2.

• The exhaust manifold has a 205 style flange on the Phase 1, and a olive style flange on a Phase 2.

• There are three sensors on the front of the thermostat housing on a Phase 1, and just one on a Phase 2.

• Fuel injectors are green on a Phase 1, and all black on a Phase 2.

• MAP sensor has a standard rectuangular 3 pin JPT style connector on Phase 1, and a late roundish style connector on Phase 2

There's other differences (as per my earlier list) but those are the easy ones to spot.

 

The comments about Phase 1 engine features applies equally to 306 GTi-6 engines btw, as there's very little difference between the two - minor loom differences and a different badge on the inlet manifold, and that's about it unless it was plucked from a 306 Rallye (has the non-AC belt setup as standard) or early GTi-6 (has an oil pressure gauge sender).

Edited December 11, 2012 by Anthony