Xsara Vts Box 1.9 Gti Final Drive

[B11 BOB 11]

Can a 1.9 gti final drive 3.69 be fitted to a Xsara vts box ?

 

Cheers

[petert 607]

Oh dear. Why would you want to do that? Yes.

[welshpug 1,675]

he wants to do three gazzillion mph.

 

mph/1000 rpm on 195 50 15.

6.3 9.8 14.3 19.2 24.7

 

 

speeds @ 7200 rpm.

45 71 103 139 178

 

 

RPM in 5th @ motorway speed = 2833.

 

RPM @ 7300 shift

4650 5024 5418 5686

 

 

 

 

 

 

sounds like a 1.9 Turbo diesel box actually.

Edited November 30, 2012 by welshpug

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Just fit a 306 hdi gearbox instead, saves a lot of hassle & has a good long fifth, ~2.4k rpm @70mph.

 

They has a 3.68 fd iirc, I'l have a look at the spec for the hdi box I have spare.

 

Just checked & it has a 3.684 fd (19 x 70).

 

g

Edited November 30, 2012 by pug_ham

[Anthony 1,003]

Wouldn't a Xsara VTS box be late enough to use the later BE3/BE4 output shaft with the different splines to the earlier 205/405 era BE boxes, thus meaning that you couldn't easily just swap the final drive alone over?

[B11 BOB 11]

Just fit a 306 hdi gearbox instead, saves a lot of hassle & has a good long fifth, ~2.4k rpm @70mph.

 

They has a 3.68 fd iirc, I'l have a look at the spec for the hdi box I have spare.

 

Just checked & it has a 3.684 fd (19 x 70).

 

g

Cheers back to my question can it be done ? I already have a low mileage vts box a quaife diff and will be running 450 bhp with 400 lb torque plus.So I need a box with longer gears plus I want to do a 1/4 mile in 11 secs the vts box with 1.9 diff will let me do this in 4 th gear.Hence the reason for wanting to do this.

[welshpug 1,675]

I'd be looking for an ML box not a BE.

[B11 BOB 11]

I'd be looking for an ML box not a BE.

What are the pros and cons regards a ML box to a Be box?

All I know is that a Be box will fit straight on at the momment I've got a gti6 box on it with a uprated gti6 paddle clutch if I fit the vts box I can still use my clutch.Otherwise I will have to buy another clutch and a ml box so is it worth spending over £500 for a ML box and a new paddle clutch ?Plus the vts box is a bolt on fit will the ml box be the same?Anyway back to my original question can a vts box be fitted with 1.9 gti final drive ?

Cheers

[welshpug 1,675]

ML is stronger, there are compatible bellhousings, just needs the shafts shortening, shifter is cable typically, which can be fitted easily, may need a custom transmission mounting.

 

if you get an early enough vts box 1.9 FD will fit fine, any MI box would be nigh on the same ratios and would fir the 1.9 FD, but a HDI box is nigh on the same ratios you want without any messing as Graham said.

[B11 BOB 11]

ML is stronger, there are compatible bellhousings, just needs the shafts shortening, shifter is cable typically, which can be fitted easily, may need a custom transmission mounting.

 

if you get an early enough vts box 1.9 FD will fit fine, any MI box would be nigh on the same ratios and would fir the 1.9 FD, but a HDI box is nigh on the same ratios you want without any messing as Graham said.

HDI box seems like a good option regards clutch fitment will I be able to use my gti6 paddle clutch ? Is the HDI box a straight bolt on fit without carrying out any mods? Also what's the going rate for a HDI box ?

Cheers

[welshpug 1,675]

going rate, no idea, depends where you get it.

 

fit, swap the XU10 clutch bits over as it uses a push clutch originally.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

No the VTS box will not house a 1.9 Pinion, But a 206 GTi one can and has a longer First and 3rd gear is stronger on the 206 box's as well, the GTi6 and VTS ones are pretty weak

[B11 BOB 11]

No the VTS box will not house a 1.9 Pinion, But a 206 GTi one can and has a longer First and 3rd gear is stronger on the 206 box's as well, the GTi6 and VTS ones are pretty weak

Thank you for answering my original question Miles.I think my best option due to it being a direct fit would be a HDi box.However I would like to know what the gear ratios are so if anyone's got them can you give me them please.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

I remembered this after posting originally, Henry Yorke has the equivalent of this box fitted to his CTi turbo.

 

It was a box I had made by Miles which I never fitted due to making my car more track based.

 

It is a 405 SRI gearbox (Mi ratios with 4.063 fd) that I had the 1.9 fd fitted too.

 

HDI box seems like a good option regards clutch fitment will I be able to use my gti6 paddle clutch ? Is the HDI box a straight bolt on fit without carrying out any mods? Also what's the going rate for a HDI box ?

Cheers

Yes, it'll bolt straight on & with the hdi box I have you wouldn't have to change any part of the clutch mechanism from what you have now, assuming you have the standard 205 Be3 pull clutch set up.

 

Going rate for a hdi box is unknown, I have a 160k box removed from my car that is in good working condition, & I'd like £50 for it + delivery.

 

I'll look on service box to try find the ratios & post them once I've figured them out.

 

fit, swap the XU10 clutch bits over as it uses a push clutch originally.

 

Not necessarily, my 306 hdi has a pull clutch just like a Be3 205 & so did daveW's afaik.

 

g

[welshpug 1,675]

I think you are getting muddled Graham, no 205 had a pull clutch, neither does the DW10 306

 

XUD9TE does however, (same as the XU10)

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

OK, I always get the clutch types mixed up.

 

The first mention of what engine it's being fitted to was made in the quoted reply above but no mention of what has been changed already, if anything to make it work in the usual 205 clutch manner.

 

g

[B11 BOB 11]

OK, I always get the clutch types mixed up.

 

The first mention of what engine it's being fitted to was made in the quoted reply above but no mention of what has been changed already, if anything to make it work in the usual 205 clutch manner.

 

g

Sorry Graham just realised you have a HDi box if the ratios are as below I will have it off you.

Graham I have a T16 engine which has a gti6 box the clutch I have is a paddle clutch to fit a gti6 box gti6 clutches have the release bearing attached I paid £400 plus for this clutch I don't want to change my gearbox for the right ratios only to find out my clutch needs changing.The ratios of the 405 Sri box are exactly what I would like.3.31, 1.88, 1.28, 0.97, 0.76 with a final drive of 3.69.If my clutch fits and these are your gearbox ratios I will have it off you asap.

Edited December 1, 2012 by B11 BOB

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

I'll have a look in service box with the car chassis number for a breakdown of the gearbox internals when i have chance in the next couple of days & let you know once I've worked the ratios out but the clutch release bearing is seperate on the clutch so its not suited atm.

 

But, afaik I have the shaft to convert it to suit your clutch though on a Xsara VTS box & it would benefit from new clutch arm bearings on the hdi box so ideal timing.

 

I don't have the 405 SRi box with 1.9 final drive anymore, I sold it to Henry Yorke quite a few years ago & he still has it on his CTI turbo afaik.

 

g

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

I had a quick look in service box earlier but I can't figure out what gear is which apart from (I think) first & fifth.

 

Detailks from service box are first line;

27x31

45x37

47x31 (0.659 fifth afaik, works right on the pug gearing xls I have for rpm @ 70mph with 195/55/15 tyres)

22x24

 

second line;

11x38 (3.455 First gear I assume, unless its reverse)

23x43

23x41

45x37

 

Any help explaining these ratios appreciated.

 

g

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Just spent a bit more time looking at the ratios using the pug gearing spreadsheet from here & I think I've figured the gear ratios of this box out;

 

1st = 3.455 (11 x 38)

2nd = 1.870 (23 x 43)

3rd = 1.280 (25 x 32)

4th = 0.969 (32 x 31)

5th = 0.659 (47 x 31)

 

I'll try to confirm some of them tonight on the drive to work.

 

g

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

After a couple of days experimenting, those ratios above appear correct judging the in gear speeds & rpm I'm getting.

 

I don't know what your rev limiter is set to but I used 7000rpm as a limit & 95/50/15 tyres;

 

 

I also have the pull type clutch arm from a Xsara VTS box so can do the conversion over with new bushes if yo're interested.

 

I thought I've read that some people with the supercharged GTI-6 conversion use the hdi box?

 

g

[B11 BOB 11]

After a couple of days experimenting, those ratios above appear correct judging the in gear speeds & rpm I'm getting.

 

I don't know what your rev limiter is set to but I used 7000rpm as a limit & 95/50/15 tyres;

 

[img=http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/public/style_images/baisik/attachicon.gif] hdi_box.jpg

 

I also have the pull type clutch arm from a Xsara VTS box so can do the conversion over with new bushes if yo're interested.

 

I thought I've read that some people with the supercharged GTI-6 conversion use the hdi box?

 

g

Cheers Graham

It appears to be just the ratios I want can you Pm me your contact details so we can arrange delivery etc