Gti6/vts Starter Intermittent Probs

[keeperlit 4 1 Cars]

Hi all,

 

Since getting my Xsara VTS engined pug on the road I've been experiencing some weird intermittent starting issues. The symptoms are the key is turned there is no action from the starter, no solenoid clicking, just nothing. Sometimes if you wait a while it eventually decides it would like to start! Happens quite rarely but this time it decided to act up in the queue AT THE MOT CENTRE! Being pushed backwards out of the MoT centre is quite embarrassing, although on the flip side it did bump start down the road (phew!).

 

So, initially I thought it was something to do with dodgy under-dash wiring or the alarm (Clifford concept 100) but the problem happened when the alarm was disabled (valet mode) and I could see the dash lights as normal and hear the fuel pump prime.

 

I ripped apart the under-dash wiring there and checked the brown connectors etc. All looks good and the engine started every time after 20-30 attempts and even after a test drive. The battery connections seem good but I can't get at the connections at the starter motor itself.

 

Where do you reckon the problem might lie?

 

I'm trying to avoid £70 for a new starter if possible, and I'm taking a gamble the problem won't happen on the MoT this Thursday!

[shalmaneser 26]

check the earth? Sounds like a loose connection to me. I'm having some starter woes too atm so can sympathise!

[S@m 156]

THe starter earths through the block so provided all of its bolts are present you can't really do much else. Check you have a good solid 12v at the starter solenoid wire (at the starter motor) when you turn the key, thats a good starting point for diagnosis. If you have, then the wiring side is likely to be fine and you can turn your attention to the starter motor itself, if you haven't its back to checking the wiring between the ign switch and the starter.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Sam306

[keeperlit 4 1 Cars]

Cheers guys. I'll be up at the workshop on Thursday night so I'll roll it over the pit and check the wiring at the starter itself and get the multimeter on it. Hopefully it's a wiring issue as that's a tad cheaper for me to fix than a new starter!

[keeperlit 4 1 Cars]

I just realised I never replied to this thread. I ended up removing the starter and replacing the solenoid and cleaning up the bushes. Seemed to work every time on the bench but I refitted it to find *no difference* whatsoever, ugh! Still only works intermittently. Since then I've checked the alarm and dash wiring with the multimeter and bypassing all that seems to make no difference.

 

One thing I did notice was that the battery voltage drops to 9V when the starter is engaged (but nothing actually happens, no clicking etc). Could this mean a problem inside the starter itself that is causing a large current drain? I noticed when replacing the solenoid the starter didn't sound great and the plastic casing housing the planetary gears was cracked?

 

Currently thinking of grabbing a good used starter (S16 one off Jemehan) and giving that a go. Any ideas? :-)

[aldworth33 45 1 Cars]

Put a jump lead from the battery earth to a clean metal part on the block to eliminate an earth strap fault then check the battery and check the small wire to the starter to make sure when you turn the key it's getting 12v, if it's bench testing fine then I'd say it's one of these that's the problem

[Anthony 1,003]

Sounds to me like it might be the usual voltage loss on the starter solenoid wiring issue. This is likely why it bench tested OK when you had the starter out, but it wouldn't work when fitted to the car.

 

Touch a 12v directly from the battery on the starter solenoid - if the starter then works, it's probably a voltage drop issue on the original wiring somewhere - starting with the alarm installation would probably be a good bet given the dreadful standard that most of them are wired in, and also where the 205 and GTi-6 looms are spliced together as I've seen some utter lash ups here too.

 

Sticking a relay in solves the problem (ended up having to do that on mine) but I would always personally try to find the underlying issue if at all possible rather than fixing the symptom.

[jameswallace. 8]

If you solve this problem please post it on here or let me kknow. im having the same issue! cheers james