Big Valves And Solid Lifters

[chris adams 0]

Why would you (or most people for that matter) even ponder the idea of bigger valves in the first place?

It is well known that stock valves as they are - are the biggest valves among all 2.0 liter engines.

I think it goes without saying that even if bigger valves are fitted - there will be no noticeable gains in the engine's performance if not done as a part of the tuning package - you will need to use different camshafts, different pulleys (adjustable), different engine management and preferably, different inlet system to gain from bigger valves.

 

Personally, I am convinced that bigger valves on this type of head is a waste of money, even as a part of thorough engine build. Simply no need to fit them.

I don't think that there are enough people with that fat of a budget to properly build the engine to the extent when valve size could become the restriction.

 

i agree on a n/a engine this is very true but if you were to turbo the motor then bigger valves would be a great addition to aiding flow.

[chris adams 0]

instead of splashing out on a head rebuild why dont you just stick on the gti6 cylinder head has been done before with good results.

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

Peter, another thing - I am about to order custom bronze seats for my race engine build. I wonder whether you happen to have the drawings/specs for the seats to share? Many thanks in advance!

 

Here you go. You can see how the bigger valve increases the port diameter, particularly with the change in the bottom cut width.

 

If it were mine, I'd just find some good second hand valves, k-line the guides and reco. Don't forget to use two shims under the springs. Then add solid lifters, retainers and reground solid cams. The benefit here is that the base circle is not important. So you can pinch some of the base circle for more lift and replace it with extra top hat shim thickness.

 

Many thanks Peter! I assume those drawings are for the inlet seats only? Do you happen to have any for the exhaust seats?

[chris adams 0]

where is the bumble bee photo...

 

thats no bumblee bee its . its . its . A FLY

Edited February 25, 2011 by mi8 turbo

[chris adams 0]

 

Still don't know how that got in there

some body must have taken something apart for this lil twat to fly in ie the air filter or something

[cammmy 1]

instead of splashing out on a head rebuild why dont you just stick on the gti6 cylinder head has been done before with good results.

 

I've thought about it but have never actually seen one for sale here. It would also be good/re-assuring to know that everything in the head is nice and fresh.

 

Also, I've got no idea how the fly got in. The head was still fully torqued down (Sheared a bolt and bent my breaker bar getting the bolts out out) If they took the air cleaner off the TB would also have had to have the butterflies open?

[chris adams 0]

instead of splashing out on a head rebuild why dont you just stick on the gti6 cylinder head has been done before with good results.

 

I've thought about it but have never actually seen one for sale here. It would also be good/re-assuring to know that everything in the head is nice and fresh.

 

Also, I've got no idea how the fly got in. The head was still fully torqued down (Sheared a bolt and bent my breaker bar getting the bolts out out) If they took the air cleaner off the TB would also have had to have the butterflies open?

 

new cenario ( one of the plugs was taken out and brundle fly flew in that way )

[chris adams 0]

instead of splashing out on a head rebuild why dont you just stick on the gti6 cylinder head has been done before with good results.

 

I've thought about it but have never actually seen one for sale here. It would also be good/re-assuring to know that everything in the head is nice and fresh.

 

Also, I've got no idea how the fly got in. The head was still fully torqued down (Sheared a bolt and bent my breaker bar getting the bolts out out) If they took the air cleaner off the TB would also have had to have the butterflies open?

 

sighn up to the gti-6 forum there will be oppotunities to grab 1 on there or speak to miles i believe he is a member he should be able to sort you out

[cammmy 1]

Thanks for that but unfortunately I'm in NZ. Shipping on a 30kg Head from the UK would be a killer.

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

where did a bunch of posts just disappear?!

[chris adams 0]

where did a bunch of posts just disappear?!

 

2 pages worth !

[cammmy 1]

Wierd! Can we get 'em back?

[petert1345402284 0]

Probably something to do with the 205 Forum being down. Here's some factory seat drawings. The best procedure for exhaust is to radius from the bottom of the 45 deg. cut into the bowl.

[DRTDVL1345402287 0]

mi8 turbo has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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QUOTE (cammmy @ Feb 27 2011, 10:43 PM) Thanks for that but unfortunately I'm in NZ. Shipping on a 30kg Head from the UK would be a killer.

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oops forgot that little detail

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cammmy has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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Are GTi6 valves the same as Mi ones apart from waisted stems?

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petert has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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QUOTE (cammmy @ Feb 28 2011, 10:13 AM) Are GTi6 valves the same as Mi ones apart from waisted stems?

 

Actually, do the GTi6's not use solid lifters too? Could I just get a set of new GTi6 lifters, set of good valves and a cam grind?

 

Edit: Seems that they are also hydraulic but significantly lighter. Would they float before 8,000rpm (when used with the springs linked by Peter previously)? Does anyone know if people have used the RS parts in the J4?

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cammmy has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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Could be a go-er. I have a few more questions though.

 

You mention k-lining the guides. Could they be lined to suit the RS valves/would there be a big enough improvement to be worth it (again if I'm already lining the guides and getting new valves) How long would and "extended time" be do you think? I wouldn't be trailing throttle at 8,000 and would by trying not to get near that on a down change either.

 

So potentially?

 

R/RS Lifters

k-line'd guides

R/RS Valves? (I believe the two differ in size?) catcam springs catcam titanium retainers reground cams

 

Possible formula or just stick with standard valves and what you have listed above?

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rodionski has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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QUOTE (cammmy @ Feb 28 2011, 03:28 AM) Could be a go-er. I have a few more questions though.

 

You mention k-lining the guides. Could they be lined to suit the RS valves/would there be a big enough improvement to be worth it (again if I'm already lining the guides and getting new valves) How long would and "extended time" be do you think? I wouldn't be trailing throttle at 8,000 and would by trying not to get near that on a down change either.

 

So potentially?

 

R/RS Lifters

k-line'd guides

R/RS Valves? (I believe the two differ in size?) catcam springs catcam titanium retainers reground cams

 

Possible formula or just stick with standard valves and what you have listed above?

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You will not be able to fit the RS valves without changing the valve seats to suit them. They are different to Mi16 valves - the inlet valve is a bit smaller than the 34.6mm mi16 while the exhaust valve is a bit larger than the mi16 one, that's besides the stem being 6mm.

 

the rs lifters are a direct fit however - they even have the same part number on official peugeot books - used in the xu9j4, xu10j4, xu10j4rs and a bunch of other applications.

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cammmy has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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^Hmmmm some conflicting information here.

 

Peter says they are definitely lighter and a bit taller. You are saying that they are the same?

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rodionski has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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QUOTE (cammmy @ Feb 28 2011, 10:03 AM) ^Hmmmm some conflicting information here.

 

Peter says they are definitely lighter and a bit taller. You are saying that they are the same?

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cammmy has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Sorry, I understand now.

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petert has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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This piston has 1mm longer travel.

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mi8 turbo has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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why not get some good used valves and have them turned down to 6mm have the collet grove corrected and fit the k-lines. sipmlpes

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rodionski has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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Because you will NEVER have the stems reduced to 6mm properly. Besides, you will have to have the stem chrome coated and cemented.

Definitely not worth the hassle, especially taking into account the risk of receiving 'not quite' 6mm throughout the valve.

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petert has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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Crazy idea. The 6mm stems bend just by sneezing at them, and they don't flow significantly better than a 7mm stem anyway. There's many more important factors.

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rodionski has just posted a reply to a topic that you have subscribed to titled "Big Valves And Solid Lifters".

 

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Peter, did you consider the nascar titanium valves as an option to grind them down to mi16 size? they have 7mm and 6mm stems, and plenty of material to work with of course - they are huge.

 

the only thing is proper coating titanium oxide/nitride or whatever, after machining, which is the issue i can't deal with anywhere in Ukraine.

 

also, could you pls comment on the exhaust seat drawing if possible?

 

many thanks!

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Edited March 1, 2011 by DRTDVL

[cammmy 1]

^Yeah mate!

[cammmy 1]

Hey Guys

 

I'm starting to price up new valves and GTi6 lifters. Quick question Peter

 

Would the PAC-S10011 springs work with the lifters? Would I be able to use the TVSRK1000 retainers too?

 

Edit: I just re-read your posts talking about most of the weight being the oil in the lifter and being able to open good condition springs etc with anything, but would still like to know if I can use those springs and retainers...

[petert1345402284 0]

The springs are fine with the lifters, that's never going to be issue. When selecting a spring you need to match:

 

OD - so that it fits in the spring base holes

ID - so that it matches the retainer

installed height - so that you get sufficient seat pressure

solid height - so that the spring doesn't bind at full lift

 

OD - fine

ID - no with TVSRK1000 retainer, ID is 20.2mm, retainer in 21.5mm

installed height - they need a thicker shim, approx. 2mm, to get 80lbs

solid height - fine with <0.450" lift

 

You could of course machine the retainers to match the spring ID.

Edited April 15, 2011 by petert

[cammmy 1]

Awesome, thanks.