[trackday_prep] 4bie Motorsport Build

[cammmy 1]

Bit more progress.

 

Have the dud motor pretty much disassembled and am working on taking the head to bits now.

 

Have split good motor from sub-frame and taken t/fer case and g/box off. Have given the inside of the bell housing on the box I'm using a clean. Was covered in gooey clutch dust.

 

Will now put everything back on and hopefully I get my mounts on sat. Should be putting the verniers on when I have a spanner big enough to go on the hex part of the cam (to hold it still so I can get the pulley off). Looking forward to having everything back in

 

[cammmy 1]

new g/box is on. I'm only planning on using three of the bolts (leaving out the bottom one behind the motor). That way I can get the box off without having to remove EVERYTHING from the back of the motor, just get to that one bolt. Is that likely to cause any issues? the t/fer case bolts onto the box in the same area with about 5 bolts and is then bolted to the rear engine mount at the other end with three bolts. I imagine that should be good enough to offset the one i'm planning to leave out?

[cammmy 1]

All that's left to do now Is get my old linkages off to be modified and install my verniers.

 

Unfortunately installing the verniers means I need to convert some old lifters to solid, then remove the camshafts to install them. Otherwise my lift readings will be completely wrong

 

If I need to install a couple of solid lifters to dial the verniers in, then once timed I have to take the cams out to swap them back. Won't that mess up my timing? Or do I just mark the belt and pulleys and make sure they line up to where they were again?

[petert1345402284 0]

If I need to install a couple of solid lifters to dial the verniers in,

 

What for? Just measure off the top of the hydraulic bucket. Because there's zero lash you're measuring cam lift directly. There's no better way to do it. Make yourself a long probe to fit down the side of the cam lobe. A small long series allen key is perfect. Cut off the bend, radius the tip and silver solder into a socket headed cap screw that fits your dial gauge.

[cammmy 1]

Everything I have read suggest that the lifters bleed down and give false readings.

 

Be absolutely certain that you use the correct type of lifter for the camshaft that is being Degreed. Hydraulic lifters must never be used when degreeing cams, they can bleed down and give you false readings.

 

http://www.kelford.co.nz/sole-purpose-of-degreeing-your-cam

 

Have read this elsewhere too.

[petert1345402284 0]

Provided the lifter is clean and healthy inside, the preload spring will always hold the bucket against the lobe.

[cammmy 1]

Cool, i'll give it a go.

 

What are the standard figures for 4bie cams? Degrees at .050?

[petert1345402284 0]

Cool, i'll give it a go.

 

What are the standard figures for 4bie cams? Degrees at .050?

 

0.032" Lift @ TDC with a #2 pulley, and 218 deg. @ 0.050".

 

Check it two or three times, rotating engine 720 deg. between, just to be sure.

[cammmy 1]

Will do, cheers for that Peter.

 

Edit: Is that for Exh and inlet?

[petert1345402284 0]

Will do, cheers for that Peter.

 

Edit: Is that for Exh and inlet?

 

Normally, but I'm not suggesting to set it up like that. I'd set the inlet at 0.050-0.055" and the exhaust at 0.032". Then experiment by advancing or retarding the exhaust a few degrees to give more hp or more torque.

[cammmy 1]

I was thinking about setting them up to factory then getting some dyno settings in at different timings. Get printouts at the various settings and I'll have guides as to where to set them for the type of course i'll be on.

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

This left the car sitting WAY to high, so I got some GAZ GGA Gold's for the front (adjusting the hight at the rear to match). This allowed me to get it a bit lower

 

Cammmy, could you advise on how low did you have the spring locks set on coilovers when that picture was taken? The car appears to still sit quite high (for my application at least), and I have my car sitting significantly lower while having about 25-30mm of spring locks thread to go even lower.

 

The reason for asking is that I will be switching from TA Technix front coilovers to GAZ GGA early april and I will have to have figured out the specs before I pay for them.

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

BTW, the rear dampers from the TA Technix kit have DIED miserably after THREE days of normal road traffic driving, without any strain on them.

 

[cammmy 1]

You mean in this pic here?

 

 

It could go a bit lower still but not on standard wheels. If you had more off-set you would be sweet.

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

How much thread is left on your coilovers then?

 

Here's my car after fitting of TA Technix coilovers originally intended for a 306 Peugeot. I had about 5-6mm of thread left.

 

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

 

Cammmy, is that the height setting you had on your coilovers when the picture you quoted was taken?

Because from what I can see looking at a zoomed in picture - you must have had a good 40-50mm of thread still left to lower the car, is that about correct?

 

Many thanks!

[cammmy 1]

Na, that was the hight that I went for a WOF with (I.E where the springs are captive without keeper springs). The pic of the car was taken with the locks about half way between there and the bottom I reckon. I can't confirm until it's all back in the car.

 

There was a wee bit more slam to be had but as I said, you would need different wheels. You could probably go about as low as the 405 in your pic but unlikely to get any lower than that.

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

Ok I see, many thanks!

 

Interesting why you would think that I could not get lower.

 

My two reasons would be: 1. Too much strain on driveshafts as they will always remain in a position where the diff sits lower than the hubs, and same for the stock top mount bearing and the arm ball bearing. 2. The sump sits danger-close to the road and when driven with the sump guard on - there was about 4-5cm of clearance, which in Ukraine is suicidal.

 

I didn't have any issues with the wheels offset though - interesting why you would bring this issue up. I run 406 steelies with 195.50 r15 semislicks, without any problems.

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

Oh and another question - does anyone know what BTCC cars used in terms of suspension to have the clearance they had?

Obviously it's impossible to have that clearance on any coilover setup and stock McPherson suspension and more so, on any settings of the stock rear beam.

[cammmy 1]

I don't think you will get much lower than your pic as there is un-likely to be enough thread on the struts to do so. Again though, that's going off what I remember from 4 months ago or more. Your d-shafts would definitely not enjoy it either (and remember, when they are on an angle they waste power)

 

With my 195/50/15 semi's on Mi rims, The spring lock can't be used at lower settings than pictured because they touch the tyre.

 

 

[cammmy 1]

Have sent my linkages away to be rose jointed and have sorted an electric PAS pump. Think i have all the bits I need sorted now. Just need to get everything back and put it all together.

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

more details please

[cammmy 1]

More details on?

 

I wanted rid of the PAS but have been informed that the pinions wear out with the added load. I decided I didn't want the standard gear in there being run from my exhaust cam, so have sorted an electric pump from an MR2. I will set up a switch so that I can turn it off when I don't want it

[rodionski 3 1 Cars]

Particularly interested in the gear rods - pics of ready items, prices and how you intend to fit them - eg mods to the shifter and gearbox. thanks)

[cammmy 1]

Ah, It's a guy from the NZ french car forum I'm on. He runs a motorcycle workshop and is modifying the standard parts for me, cost will be about 140NZD. He uses this setup in his 309 race car with good result.

 

I haven't got the bits back yet but will put up pics when I have them. I will have to drill holes in various parts to fit everything.

[cammmy 1]

I now have everything. Time to re-assemble