Phase 1 Clutch Cable On A Phase 2

[Bassman 1]

Hello,

 

I recently changed my clutch and thought it woud be a good idea to change the cable whilst I was at it, not that it was problematic.

 

I bought a clutch cable from Car Spares and mine is the newer type with a bullet type connector that slides into a socket attached to the pedal. This type is auto-adjusting with a rachet mechanism near where it clips to the sub-frame.

 

After about 1000 miles, the ratchet was hell after the car had been on a journey for about 20 minutes or so. It seems to warm up and then get really sticky. Having looked on other forums like Aussie Frogs, this seems to be a common problem on other Pugs like the 306. I have tried re-routing it, but it is knackered.

 

I was thinking, that rather than going to Pug and trying an OE cable for £40+, could I go back to the old style clip-on cable without a ratchet like my 205 GTi? I think this is what is fitted on Phase 1 405s. I know the clips are dodgy, but I would hope they would last a couple of years at least and I can always carry a spare. I can't cope with driving in traffic with a sticky clutch cable anymore.

 

Anybody know which GSF or Neat Autos part I should use. Mine is listed as 1450mm and Pug part number 2150 G1. Looking at the Pug catalogue, the same clutch pedal is listed and should still have a hook on the top, which I'll check later tonight.

 

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

I'm sure I'll br corrected on this if I'm wrong but I've a feeling you can use one yes. I seem to recall them being the same apart from that rat s*it when I did my dad's phase 2 clutch cable. Loads of them on ebay.

Wait until someone else replies though in case I'm very wrong.

[welshpug 1,657]

the P1 uses a Push type clutch, P2 a pull type, hence the different cables, I'm sure they could be modified to fit but the Dealer supplied parts are far superior in quality.

 

£33 is how much I paid for mine, spot on too.

[Bassman 1]

the P1 uses a Push type clutch, P2 a pull type, hence the different cables, I'm sure they could be modified to fit but the Dealer supplied parts are far superior in quality.

 

£33 is how much I paid for mine, spot on too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have taken the plunge and ordered a cable off eBay which says it is for a BE3 1.6, 1.8, 1.9 from 1988 on. Looking at the cable, it has the correct bullet connector on the end like mine, but has a stud at the other end with locknuts instead of the ratchet like my 205.

 

I am hoping that I can simply swap the two over. I did see one of the earlier cables with the clip that hooks over the end of the cable, but these do like quite different.

 

I'll let you know how I get on when I've fitted it.

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[welshpug 1,657]

you'll find that the cable you have ordered is for a Phase 1 push type, it will not work with the Pull type clutch without modification.

 

P2 pull type clutches only ever used a self adjusting cable!

[Bassman 1]

you'll find that the cable you have ordered is for a Phase 1 push type, it will not work with the Pull type clutch without modification.

 

P2 pull type clutches only ever used a self adjusting cable!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK now I'm confused!

 

My cable is pulled when I press the pedal down, and the cable moves within the outer sheath and pulls the clutch arm back towards the bulkhead to pull the clutch away from the flywheel.

 

As far as I understand it, the ratchet is just there to take up and slack in the cable instead of using locknuts.

 

With the new cable, the principal should be the same, the pedal will pull the cable through the outer sheath and pull the clutch lever arm back towards the bulkhead.

 

Am I having a senior moment?

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

I'm confuzzled. Mei, there's still a clutch arm that's pulled towards to baulkhead right?

[welshpug 1,657]

I though the car in question was a Phase 2?!

 

In a P1 1.9 Mi16 Push Type Clutch you push the bearing towards the flywheel to disengage the clutch, this is where the front-most lever is pulled back towards the bulkhead, like your car Kriss

 

In a Phase 2 2.0 Pull Type Clutch the front-most bracket is fixed where the inner cable is secured, the rearmost part is a lever that moves forwards (the outer cable is fixed into this and slides in a guide on the gearbox)

 

the P2 never got a non-self adjuster cable for the pull type clutches.

Edited February 26, 2008 by WELSHPUG

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Aww I need a pic of the top of a P2 gearbox now.

[welshpug 1,657]

same as a Gti6 kriss

 

 

front bracket holds the inner cable, lever is pulled forwards by the outer cable.

 

release bearing integral to pressure plate -

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

How strange! Wonder why they changed it.

[Bassman 1]

same as a Gti6 kriss

 

 

front bracket holds the inner cable, lever is pulled forwards by the outer cable.

 

release bearing integral to pressure plate -

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aha, the light has come on here!!

 

I think the confusion was that I have a Phase 2 (1996) GLX, not an Mi16. My clutch is definitely not like the one in the above picture, I have a single lever arm which is actuated by the inner cable being pulled towards the bulkhead.

 

The release bearing slides along a shaft as the lever arm is moved on mine and is not integral like the above picture, so I must have a push-type clutch, not a pull. This must be the same as the BE3 on my 205, I presume the Mi16 is different due to the extra power it is required to handle perhaps? Still a bit shaky on the benefits of pull vs push.

 

So the cable I have on order should work.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

I think my dad's 1996 2 litre 8 valve GTX was like your 1.8 too.

[welshpug 1,657]

mega DOH! moment there then!! sorry!

 

I'm not sure what the reasons were for it were but the TD and all 16v XU10's use this clutch, others do indeed use the push type clutch.

 

the 1.8 uses exactly the same clutch as the 205 gti.

[Bassman 1]

mega DOH! moment there then!!  sorry!

 

I'm not sure what the reasons were for it were but the TD and all 16v XU10's use this clutch, others do indeed use the push type clutch.

 

the 1.8 uses exactly the same clutch as the 205 gti.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks Gents, I'll let you know how I get on when I get my eBay special cable fitted.

 

 

Rob

[Jer309GTi 3]

the 1.8 uses exactly the same clutch as the 205 gti.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats a 200mm isn't it? Rather than the 215mm (iirc) that the Mi uses?

[welshpug 1,657]

Yup, the 8v 2.0 uses a 200 mm clutch too.

[Bassman 1]

So the eBay special cable arrived and.... .... I couldn't get it to fit.

 

Turns out that the earlier cables are about 1 inch shorter from the end of the stud with the lock nuts to where the outer cable locks into the top of the gearbox. I even tried cutting out the rubber spacers to to give as much space as possible, but it was never going to fit. Overall length was spot one, just this last bit.

 

Called up my local motor factors and they had both styles in stock so I popped round to compare by last ratchet cable to what they had in case my eBay special was not conforming.

 

It turned out that they matched, but the new ratchet cable they had, mounted the ratchet to the subframe directly, whereas the last one I bought had it offset by two inches. This offset plastic bracket had bent overtime and the ratchet was about two inches below the subframe in the airflow. The new one clips directly to the subframe in the proper hole and is out of the airflow.

 

I am hoping that this new one will sort it. It was masde by Motaquip and according to the spares bloke, they are owned by Peugeot so they should be OE quality?

 

Is this true?

 

 

I'll let you know if after a few weeks the stickiness is back.

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[Bassman 1]

The stickiness is back on my first journey to work.

 

Grrrrrrr

 

Think I am going to fetch the non-ratchet cable out of the bin and see if I can fashion an extension to the stud.

 

Either that or use a scrap piece of ally I have an bolt it to the sub-frame and fold it around the ratchet as a heat shield.

 

Bloody thing.

[welshpug 1,657]

have you tried a Pug cable?

[Bassman 1]

have you tried a Pug cable?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, iwas trying to avoid this as they are £40 each.

 

I had a play last night and I have used a short piece of bar and some M6 threaded bar to create and extension to the threaded bar at the end of the manually adjusted cable.

 

Going to try and fit it tomorrow and give that a try. Proper cowboy style!

 

I might even take a photo for your amusement if it works.

[welshpug 1,657]

there's a reason they're £30 plus vat mate

[Bassman 1]

Job done, old style cable modified and fitted.

 

Modified phase 1 cable with extra threaded bar to fit phase 2

 

Attachment from the phase 2 cable for clipping into the gearbox transferred over as well.

 

Bit of aluminimum bar tapped at each end and thread-locked on.

 

In situ. Plenty of room for adjustment!!

 

 

 

The pedal is heavier with this type of cable, but seems nice and smooth at the moment. Fingers crossed that the journey to work tomorrow doesn't fry this cable as well!

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Ahh I see aircon pipes!

[Bassman 1]

I could cry... ...

 

New cable is fine, but I still get a stickiness to the pedal when the engine is warm.

 

It is not as bad and I think I can adjust the cable to ensure I can still change gear when the engine is warm, but the heat must be causing the release bearing or the plate to stick.

 

Looks like a gearbox off job at some point when I am feeling really enthusiastic.