[project] 405 Mi16 Drift/track Car

[imaS 0]

I used this special tool. Nuts opened very easily.

 

AlexN: Did you manage to purchase the white teflon seals, which are inside the suspension cylinder?

[AlexN 7]

I used this special tool. Nuts opened very easily.

 

AlexN: Did you manage to purchase the white teflon seals, which are inside the suspension cylinder?

I tried plumbers grips but they wouldn't budge the nuts on mine, maybe they were just corroded on slightly? Good idea though.

 

No I didn't. I decided to only replace the o-seals and leave the teflon ring and square seals alone. The teflon seals are no longer available as far as I can tell which is a shame but inevitable I guess. One seal I still can't get hold of is part number 2211 35. It's a typical u shaped oil seal, but neither Peugeot or Citroen stock it any more, and it is such a weird size that (unlike some rear diff seals) I couldn't buy it from seal stockists. The dimensions are 49 x 60 - 5.3 (mm).

 

Have you managed to get hold of this or have you not touched the transfer box?

[imaS 0]

I got that seal (2211 35) from main dealer. Replaced it when I changed new stronger splineshafts a couple of years ago, shame that it is NFP nowadays.

 

Seal 2211 36 at the propshaft flange is also NFP. But custom made replacement seal can be made by a sealing specialist.

[AlexN 7]

I got that seal (2211 35) from main dealer. Replaced it when I changed new stronger splineshafts a couple of years ago, shame that it is NFP nowadays.

 

Seal 2211 36 at the propshaft flange is also NFP. But custom made replacement seal can be made by a sealing specialist.

Yes I have been unable to get either of those seals. Do you know of any companies that will make small numbers of bespke seals? The ones I have spoken to would require orders of 1000's to make a custom seal!

 

I did manage to buy some seals for the rear diff that were commercial of the shelf items but not those for the transfer box

[imaS 0]

Well, here in Finland we have a few companies that make custom seals for industrial purposes. I don't know if there exists similar companies in the UK. Actually, we had a small group buy for that 2211 36 seal and as far as I know all were sold.

[MiCRO 0]

Nice project there, i'm looking forward to seeing it finished. Colin Satchell does some quality work, i have a few of his parts on my car:

 

Alternator Pulleys:

 

Can you please tell me how much weight is taken off the alternator pulleys?

[AlexN 7]

Well, here in Finland we have a few companies that make custom seals for industrial purposes. I don't know if there exists similar companies in the UK. Actually, we had a small group buy for that 2211 36 seal and as far as I know all were sold.

If you could help me out with some enquiries regarding the seals I would be very appreciative Like I said earlier I keep hitting dead ends with companies over here, no one seems interested to make small batches for any money! I will gladly pay a silly price for the seal (obviously not £100's) so if know anywhere that might do small batches it would be a start!!

[imaS 0]

It's the same problem here. Costs for one seal will be absurd. Or you need to buy tens of spares.

[swordfish210 20]

Nice project there, i'm looking forward to seeing it finished. Colin Satchell does some quality work, i have a few of his parts on my car:

 

Alternator Pulleys:

 

Can you please tell me how much weight is taken off the alternator pulleys?

 

I'd love to be able to tell you but my scales failed on me when i tried to weigh them. They're for a TU engine anyway, not an Mi

[AlexN 7]

It's the same problem here. Costs for one seal will be absurd. Or you need to buy tens of spares.

Woohoo! I have found an extremely helpful and knowledgeable company to make me the missing seals! I am getting the two from the transfer box, and the main input shaft on the rear diff seal (although I am not sure how extensively I am going to overhaul the rear diff - has anyone on here had a go? I'm going to replace the output seals, but is worth messing around with anything else?)

 

I will probably have to buy small batches, so if anyone needs any I should have more than enough (I'll keep a couple for spares of each). Once I get these I will have a complete set of new seals for the whole drivetrain!

 

Edit: I'm also off to see Colin Satchell on Friday to discuss the rollcage and suspension requirements. I'm hoping to have the car back on the wheels in a week or so, I've just got to crack on and get the rear suspension rebuilt.

Edited August 18, 2009 by AlexN

[imaS 0]

I am going to overhaul the rear diff - has anyone on here had a go? I'm going to replace the output seals, but is worth messing around with anything else

Well, I've done something... Seal 3206 21 was available a year ago. I replaced paper seal 3206 11 with silicone sealant. Didn't replace bearings, they were ok. The allen bolt at propshaft flange needs to be removed and then you can remove the flange with extractor to gain access to the seal.

[AlexN 7]

I am going to overhaul the rear diff - has anyone on here had a go? I'm going to replace the output seals, but is worth messing around with anything else

Well, I've done something... Seal 3206 21 was available a year ago. I replaced paper seal 3206 11 with silicone sealant. Didn't replace bearings, they were ok. The allen bolt at propshaft flange needs to be removed and then you can remove the flange with extractor to gain access to the seal.

That is basically what I intended to do. I have managed to buy the input shaft seal from a bearing supplier, but I was wondering about the gasket. I've also got the two driveshaft seals so I can replace them.

 

On this drawing, what exactly is the seal 3010 13 (number 3 on the drawing)? Is it worth getting this seal made as it is also no longer available?

 

When you overhauled the transfer box, did you replace all the o-seals on the output shaft? Obviously these are also not available, similar sizes can be found commercially but not exact replacements. I might try and get some of these made up as well.

[imaS 0]

Seal 3010 13 is a normal o-ring seal.

 

I didn't dismantle the propshaft flange at the transferbox. I replaced only side seals, splineshafts and differentials.

[AlexN 7]

I'm going to take a visit to my local Peugeot dealer and see if I can borrow the tool to undo the lock nut on the transfer box output shaft, being typical Peugeot it is not a standard nut!

 

Another small update to make, I have undercoated and painted the rear suspension arms ready to fit back on the subframe. I need the car back on it's wheels asap so I am just going to refit the arms and let the car sit on the bump stops. I'm going to get new rear wheel bearings fitted first though. I'll just refit the old front struts and wishbones to start with as well. Luckily I haven't sold the wheels yet! It will be a major milestone having the car with wheels back on, I haven't had it on four wheels in over 2 years!

 

 

 

 

Secondly I've been doing a bit of research on suspension cylinders and came to the conclusion the later Citroen Xantia cylinders are essential the same as the Mi16x4's, and GSF had some in stock. The bore is identical as is the piston and body dimensions. The attachment point to the suspension are and breather hose outputs are all identical. The output banjo connector and lock nut fit perfectly on where the sphere would screw into on the Xantia. The only thing different is the little stub on the side of the body is larger and it is drilled and tapped. Obviously on the citroen they tap off here for some reason, maybe to the brake compensator? I'll need to get the stub turned down at work to fit through the body of the subframe, and get a plug loctited in to block the hole, but other than that I have got brand new replacement cylinders! I couldn't find refurbish kits for the seals anywhere so this is a much better option.

 

 

 

As an aside here is what is keeping me from starting my engine rebuild, my house mates Z3M Coupe engine that he has finally just about got back together. I'm looking forward to getting this project finished, I want to leave him eating my dust!

 

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Ah those cylinders might turn in handy for T16 owners too!

 

What did they cost?

[AlexN 7]

Ah those cylinders might turn in handy for T16 owners too!

 

What did they cost?

 

They were about £70 each which isn't too bad. GSF still have 3 in stock in the UK, but I don't think they are hard to find from any Citroen dealer (although you will probably pay a bit more).

 

The Citroen part number is 5272 20 (left) and 5272 24 (right) - you need the saloon version as it has the identical body and bore dimensions. Left and right seems a bit pointless as the units are identical as far as I can see.

Edited August 21, 2009 by AlexN

[AlexN 7]

Another quick update. I went and met Colin Satchell on Saturday, and we had a good chat about what I wanted from the car and he showed me some of his work on couple of cars he had in his workshop. His level of workmanship is exemplary! I am going let him do his stuff with my front suspension and fit a roll cage. Talking to him about the rear suspension (I just happened to have the rear sub-frame and swingarms in the back of my car), he made a suggestion that he modify the swingarms and mount vertical coilover shocks into custom made turrets at the rear of the car. He would also tie the turrets into the roll cage. This would mean I can keep the subframe and thus mount the diff easily while upgrading the handling of the car even further!

 

He can't take the car until November, but this gives me time to start sorting the rest of the bits to go back on the shell, including potentially and exciting replacement engine (not going to say too much yet as I haven't got it, but in a couple of weeks I should have something rather special to drop into the engine bay )

 

Obviously after discussing this I took a quick trip back to GSF to return the Citroen cylinders. I can tell you that with very minor modifications they would have fitted so anyone who wants to replace theirs, they are the ones to go for.

 

This evening I have also removed the final few seals that I could not source from Peugeot to get manufactured by this seal company I found. I'm posting them off tomorrow so hopefully I will hear back some good news soon. I had to remove the transfer box output shaft, and luckily I did manage to borrow the special socket from Peugeot to do this. A puller was all that was required to remove the output flange from the shaft.

 

 

 

 

Things are finally gathering pace on this project, my revised finish date is now February/March of next year. I can't wait!

[Jer309GTi 3]

Very impressive project, thanks for keeping us up to date! :)

[calvinhorse 870]

this is an excellent project and colin satchells idea for the rear end sounds spot on! i have parts made by him and the quality is second to none!

 

is the 405 rear diff and shafts going to be up to the job of taking all of the power? what percentage of the drive do they normally take?

[AlexN 7]

I don't think it will be a problem. The rear take 47% of the power (I believe) and the diff is pretty much bombproof with that kind of power. The weak points are the transfer splines, the center diff and the prop shaft union (it's in two parts). I plan to purchase stronger parts for all these from the French chap that sells them (ATD Performance).

 

It should be a pretty much unique car once it is finished. I wanted to make something a bit special and I think the plans I have will achieve that.

[brettoz 0]

Where did you get the Lexan windows?

 

Thanks,

 

Brett

[AlexN 7]

Another update, albeit a bit more of an important one!

 

I've finally started to get the car back on it's wheels, the front subframe is pretty much rebuilt (just missing one wishbone) ready to put back on. I have replaced both rear hub bearings so that the wheels will now rotate and thus the rear subframe is also pretty much ready to go back on. Next time I am at my parents I'll flip it over and have it back the right way up for the first time in two years! Then I will have to take out the front and rear screens and wait until November some time to deliver it to Colin Satchell.

 

 

 

 

Last weekend was a particularly busy one, I ended up driving 2400 miles, and in between driving and some seriously sweet mountain biking (and food!) in the Italian Alps I picked up a T16 XU10J4TE engine! I also got the gearbox to go with it and a big bunch of spares. It's the one that was advertised here on the forum a few weeks ago, and a big thanks to Kutija for arranging to get it into the EU to make is easier for me to collect!

 

I got the engine up on the stand this evening with the help of a couple of mates (it was bloody heavy!), so here are the pics!

 

 

 

Looks a bit untidy at the moment, but as soon as I get some space in the garage (my housemate's M Coupe is finally almost back together) I will get on a start a small rebuild on it.

 

Oh and Brett, I got the window kit from a company called SRB Power.

Edited September 16, 2009 by AlexN

[AlexN 7]

I spent some time today stripping out the old bearings from my spare set of rear arms (these will eventually go onto the car). I think you will see from the photos that they were well overdue an overhaul!

 

Two of the bearing simply disintegrated and there was obviously a lot of water ingress as huge amounts of rust dust came out with them! Drifting the old bearing races out was a fun job as well! Still now they are all stripped out I am going to get them sandblasted and then rebuild them. I have bought new seals and protectors from Peugeot and have found the bearings from a local supplier.

 

 

 

 

[AlexN 7]

I've fully refurbished my rear arms, I managed to get them bead blasted and then sprayed in Mil Spec black paint I think they look pretty smart!

 

 

 

 

I have also started to refurbish my Brembo callipers, they needed repainting and still need a bit of a rub down and re-coat but not looking too bad (much better than they were!). I have a new seal kit for them as well.

 

 

I have also had machined at work a couple of new rear subframe mounts out of solid aluminium. I have left them to be anodised red overnight so I will post some pics tomorrow, they look very nice!

 

Finally I picked up a box of 16 brand new XU10J4RS hydraulic lifters! I think I pretty much have everything I need to rebuild the engine now.

 

 

[cammmy 1]

Awesome mate. I could be looking at doing something similar but aimed at hill climbs (lots of hills over here). Also very interested to know where you got lexan windows.

 

Keep it up. will probably PM you in the future begging for advise and suppliers :-)