Starter Motor. Urgent Help Needed

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Ever since I got my 405 there has been a problem wih the starter motor. Every now and again it would simply click and not turn the engine over. I installed a re-conditioned one when I got the car, but since the car hasnt been on the road yet, I assumed it was simply due to a the battery not holding a full charge. I installed a new battery today (diesel one) and the same thing is happening. The starter motor has been tested again and it's fine too. All wiring has been tested and terminals cleaned and everything is ok.

This is really doing my head in since the inlet manifold has to come off to get at the damned thing.

Is this a common problem on them?

[Jer309GTi 3]

Ever since I got my 405 there has been a problem wih the starter motor.  Every now and again it would simply click and not turn the engine over.  I installed a re-conditioned one when I got the car, but since the car hasnt been on the road yet, I assumed it was simply due to a the battery not holding a full charge.  I installed a new battery today (diesel one) and the same thing is happening.  The starter motor has been tested again and it's fine too. All wiring has been tested and terminals cleaned and everything is ok.

This is really doing my head in since the inlet manifold has to come off to get at the damned thing.

Is this a common problem on them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is usually the small solenoid wire not giving quite enough voltage to activate the solenoid properly. Quick fix is to fit a relay to give the solenoid full battery power, using the original solenoid as the wire to energise the relay.

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Why would there not be enough voltage in the small solenoid wire? What causes that problem?

Care to elaborate on wiring in the relay?

Thanks btw

[Jer309GTi 3]

Something to do with the wire from ign switch to solenoid breaking down afaik. Think the resistance gets too high and reduces the voltage, or something like that.

 

With the relay, you have a 12v input from the battery, an earth, an output (to the solenoid) and an input (existing solenoid wire). The existing solenoid wire switches the relay so the 12v from the battery goes straight to the solenoid when you turn the key. Or at least thats how I understood it lol. So could be wrong...

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Tbh I always thought it a bit strange that the car turned over fairly sluggishly. I measured the voltage in the wire there and it is indeed 2.5 volts down on battery voltage so i think (hope) thats the problem. 4th damned time I've had the inlet manifold off.

Oh indeed I'm going to have a few Guinness tonight!

[ryan13961345402285 1]

And to complicate matters again, I re-checked the solenoid wire and it's got full voltage again. Got a loom made up to wire in a relay, so gonna try it tomorrow (fingers crossed). 40 amp relay should suffice?

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

This isn't going to be much help but I had this and I bunged on a nearly new XU10 starter from ebay and the clicking crap has stopped. Somehow I managed to do it without getting the inlet off but it was alot of hassle and everything to the right of the starter had to come off.

[ryan13961345402285 1]

My starter was fully refurbished and I have another good one here as a backup lol. Have to get this sorted today as it's going to get timing belt and tensioners fitted tomorrow!

[Guest turbolag]

Before you get too involved in fancy rewiring jobs, check all the connecions are shiny clean, tight, and smeared with either dieltric grease or vaseline. Summat as simple as a decades worth of road crud could be the culprit.

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Don't worry ye olde turbolag, that was the first thing that was checked. I made up a loom anyway and did a trial run before putting the inlet back on and everything is now dandy. But I did re-check how it performed with the original wire and it turns over alot slower and clicks every 2nd or 3rd time.

[Roland1345402284 0]

Don't worry ye olde turbolag, that was the first thing that was checked.  I made up a loom anyway and did a trial run before putting the inlet back on and everything is now dandy.  But I did re-check how it performed with the original wire and it turns over alot slower and clicks every 2nd or 3rd time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You will probably find the original problem was in the back of the ignition switch.

All the currect normally goes through there and the contacts can get worn and dirty from arcing.

 

Fitting a relay, as you have done, is the best solution.

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Quick question:

Would it be ok to remove the bracket on the left side of the starter? Absolute pain to refit. Surely the 3 main bolts should be sufficient to hold the starter in place

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Put it all back together again (minus the bracket on the starter) and hurrah! it works brilliantly. Thanks everyone for the advice.

Just hope a 40A relay is meaty enough

[danrogers 0]

sounds like this could apply to mine too? every so often it wont start, wen i turn the key to the starting position absolutely nothing and if i leave the car and come back to it a few hours later it works?! originally i thought this to be a immobiliser fault but had it replaced and its still happened since. ive been thinking its possibly dead spots in the starter i just dont know. really gets on my nerves as i cant rely on the car even though its sweet as a nut when its running!

any help would be great

 

dan

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Simple enough job to rewire it with a relay. It'd probably cure it

[danrogers 0]

does my problem sound similar to yours then mate? where would i get a relay from? cheers

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Mine would have just happened at any time. Best bet is to check what voltage is in the main starter wire and go from there. If there is a significant drop from what it should be (12 volts-ish) then thats probably the problem.

As for a relay, you could get one from a scrapyard but they're not that expensive from a motor factors (less than a tenner)

[danrogers 0]

nice one mate. when u turned the key to start when yours was playin it did anyfing happen?

[ryan13961345402285 1]

At times it would start but the starter would turn over very slowly. Other times the starter would just click

[danrogers 0]

yeah sounds very similar mate, so i shoud take a votage reading wen i start it sometime u think?

[JOHN89MI16 0]

I had the same problem on my mi16 when i had it. Luckily i already changed the starter due to it playing up and then a few months down the line it started to play up again so i sent it back under warranty and got it changed free of charge.

I also had the same problem on my 205 1.9 gti.

As for changing the starter i could do it in 30 minutes max without jacking the car up.

Its alot easier if you remove the oil filler pipe on the bottom of the engine just above the sump and drop the starter out from under the car after your unbolt the 3 bolts through the gearbox and the 2 starter wiring connection which you can access from underneath. It saves removing the inlet manifold which can be a pain.

I hope this helps.

[Jer309GTi 3]

Good bit of advice there, removing the manifold is a PITA like you say

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Try doing that on one with aircon!

[Jer309GTi 3]

True!

[Stuey 2]

yeah sounds very similar mate, so i shoud take a votage reading wen i start it sometime u think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Dan,

 

It's almost certainly this problem. I don't think many owners get away without the problem at some stage, and older starters are simply harder to energise as they're slightly less efficient as they wear. I rebuilt my starter AND installed a relay. By the way, you can eventually have issues with the ignition switch if a relay isn't installed, as the switch takes too much current, arcs, and burns. This is a bigger job than installing a relay, and obviously more expensive.

 

Also, the relay can be installed on the left side of the engine bay where all that wiring is. This is where the wires to the starter solenoid go. So you don't have to remove the starter or anything. There is a 10mm nut under the cover on the front end of this block which is an ideal earth point, too.

 

A 40amp automotive horn-type relay is fine. I'd recommend a quality one like a Bosch. It's only the current drain from the solenoid which goes through the relay contacts, but the collapsing of the magnetic field in the solenoid windings does cause a return of 'back EMF' to the relay and some arcing. (There is a way around this with what's called a 'freewheeling diode', but I no-one uses this and I haven't had issues either).

 

Cheers

 

Stuey