Mi16 Vs Mi16x4 Specs

[ryan13961345402285 1]

Hi folks,

I've been told that the engines in the 2wd and 4wd versions aren't exactly the same. Does the 4wd have different cams and ecu? They're both quoted at 160bhp but I'm assuming that the cams and ecu on a 4wd are to give different engine characteristics due to the extra weight/transmission losses?

Anyone shed any light on this?

 

Thanks

[Jer309GTi 3]

All I know is the x4 has a higher rev limit, 7400 iirc. I think the power was shifted up the range, but not sure how. Maybe thats what the other cam pulleys are for, no.4 for example, to alter the cam timing

[Guest pugmt]

Right then, i have recently been looking into this and what i have found is that:

1: the inlet cam is different

2:the exhaust cam is different

3: the ecu is different

 

after a little digging i have found out that the ecu gives a higher rpm on the x4 ecu and also is mapped differently through the rev range due to the power consumption of the 4x4 system.

i have been told that the cams have more lift and duration on the x4 but have not been able to clarify exactly the differences. Peugeot list 2 different cams for the x4 though so they are definatly different.

[ryan13961345402285 1]

On another note, what are the diferences in the 2wd ecu's? I've heard talk of 355's, 158's and 161's. Whats the difference in them?

[Baz 421]

Motronic 1.3 and 4.1, 2row and 3row are the obvious differences.

 

The 4bie cams and ecu are a nice easy little upgrade, as fitted to my White 205!

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

If the Mi16x4 ECUs are different to the 2wd ECUs there's certainly no way of identifying this externally - they have the same code numbers. Also I've seen no concrete evidence of the rev limiter being set higher. Both of the 2wd Mi16s I've had seem to get to about 7400rpm.

 

I think, UK-wise, the Mi16 started with the "125" ecu (ML4.1 - 2 row) in July 1988 and then sometime in 1989 became the "139" ecu (ML4.1 - 2 row).

Then in 1991 - H reg - chassis number 70000000 - the ecu became motronic m1.3. - the "355". Yes that's the three row ecu and the engine gained a sexy knock sensor.

 

Of course the BX16v had a similar run, and the numbers were next door - our 355 ecu was 354 I think, oh though actually I now remember the 309 GTI16 had the 354.

The 158 and 161 and all that, they're the 3 rows again but with the lambda facility.

Oh anyway,

 

Mi16x4 weighs a whole 130kgs more than the 2wd version, quite alot really - infact about the same weight difference between an mi16x2 and a 309 gti16.

[Baz 421]

Both my 4bie Ecu's are "139"s. I didn't think they were on anything else other than a 4bie tho Kris?

[Jer309GTi 3]

Some good info there Kris

 

Both of the 2wd Mi16s I've had seem to get to about 7400rpm.

 

Thats odd, the limiter on my J reg is bang-on 7000, that has a 355 ECU. I haven't revved the H reg anywhere near the limit however as I don't know the condition of the cambelt. The H reg has a 139 ECU so will be interesting to see what that revs to.

[ryan13961345402285 1]

My K-reg (phase 1) is a 355 ecu too and the limiter is around the 7k mark

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

My J reg 355 went to 7400.......... and then I put that engine and ecu into a 309 and hey presto it'd only rev to 6900!

[petert1345402284 0]

Peugeot tachos are notoriously inaccurate. Believe me when I tell you the Mi16x4, certainly the 2 row models, have a 7400 limit, compared to 7100 for Mi16. I've swapped ECU's between cars and the difference is obvious.

 

As for cams, they all have the same lift, 0.362". But there are subtle differences in duration.

 

ieg inlet cams

 

Mi16 - 214 deg. @ 0.050"

Mi16x4 - 216 deg. @ 0.050"

 

The difference would be almost unnoticeable. I certainly had to measure it several times to confirm. Certainly not worth swapping cams for. In comparison, the Stage I regrind I sell is 226 deg. @ 0.050".

 

The early 2 row Mi16x4's also had #2 pulleys on the inlet, which kept the power band high. Couple that with the extra slighty bigger inlet cam, and you can appreciate why the ECU has a higher rev limit.

[Baz 421]

Mi16 - 214 deg. @ 0.050"

Mi16x4 - 216 deg. @ 0.050"

 

The difference would be almost unnoticeable. I certainly had to measure it several times to confirm. Certainly not worth swapping cams for. In comparison, the Stage I regrind I sell is 226 deg. @ 0.050".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Definitely, my engine was just built using the best of what i had, hence it having the 4x4 cams!

 

But i still think i should really get one of the slightly lumpier versions from your excellency!!

[Ryan 99]

As for cams, they all have the same lift, 0.362". But there are subtle differences in duration.

 

ieg inlet cams

 

Mi16 - 214 deg. @ 0.050"

Mi16x4 - 216 deg. @ 0.050"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How does that compare with the BX? I keep reading that all 16V BXs had the FWD inlet cam and x4 exhaust cam.

[Baz 421]

You sure you don't mean just the cam pulleys are different Ryan? There was a lot of talk about the different numbered pulleys coming on the BX's rather than the 405's etc, but i think it's just random.

Edited June 16, 2007 by BazGTMi

[Sloppy 0]

all random, when i was looking for a coil pack for mine a place that sold electrical sensors and stuff for em listed the mi16X4 as the DXY engine i think ie. the one that produces 149 bhp or sopmething was mentioned in a thred the other day

[Baz 421]

The DFW cat equipped ones? No 4bie ever had that engine i don't think!

Edited June 16, 2007 by BazGTMi

[Jer309GTi 3]

The DFW cat equipped ones?  No 4bie ever had that engine i don't think!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah I thought all UK 4bies had the D6C? Maybe wrong though...

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Yeah and they both had the same coil so that place you went to Sloppy was rather, er, sloppy! lol

[petert1345402284 0]

How does that compare with the BX? I keep reading that all 16V BXs had the FWD inlet cam and x4 exhaust cam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The BX certainly has the same exhaust cam as the X4. It doesn't make any difference however, as it's TOO BIG for the standard inlet cam anyway. The exhaust ports are way too efficient for their own good, and thus that's why I recommend using a std. exhaust cam with my Stage I inlet cam.

 

All Mi16x4 engines were D6C. Early ones two row ECU, later 3 row ECU. But never with a cat.

Edited June 17, 2007 by petert

[Tony1345402284 0]

My 1989 MI16x4 has a two row "139" ecu, a D6C engine (according to the sticker on the front panel), and (I checked today) a #4 inlet pulley.

 

Tony

[petert1345402284 0]

and (I checked today) a #4 inlet pulley.

 

Just goes to show how much they mix and match! I'd much rather have a #3 or #4 on the inlet. Next belt change.

[Baz 421]

The one i broke, also an '89 4bie had a #4 inlet pulley fitted too. Not sure if that's normal or not though! Again probably just random!

[Sloppy 0]

and (I checked today) a #4 inlet pulley.

 

Just goes to show how much they mix and match! I'd much rather have a #3 or #4 on the inlet. Next belt change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

does this advance or retard the timing slightly then i.e the higher the number the more advanced the inlet cam is?

[petert1345402284 0]

does this advance or retard the timing slightly then i.e the higher the number the more advanced the inlet cam is?

 

yes, advances, eg

 

Inlet Lobe Centre Line

#2 - 114 deg. ATDC

#3 - 111

#4 - 107

[Tony1345402284 0]

and (I checked today) a #4 inlet pulley.

 

Just goes to show how much they mix and match! I'd much rather have a #3 or #4 on the inlet. Next belt change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I asume you mean #2 or #3 pulley, this would retard the inlet cam timing slightly moving the power up the rev range a little.

 

Being realistic the driving I do lends itself more to low and mid range urge rather max peak power.

 

Would a #3 pulley be a good compromise?

 

An inlet cam change is tempting but at 130,000 miles (and as far as I know never been apart but running fine), I think it might be best left alone.

 

Tony