6speed Gearbox 4x4

[Guest pugmt]

I have now completed the gearbox conversion to allow a BE3/6 gearbox to mate up to a 4x4 transfer box. And let me tell you all it was not as easy as i thought.

 

You cannot just bolt up the 4x4 diff casing to the back of a GTI6 (be3/6) gearbox as the casings are completely differant.

 

You basically have to modify the bell housing part of the BE3/5 TK2 gearbox to accept the gears of the BE3/6. The 3 main issues are.

1. the differance in the crown wheel/pinion being a different ratio and the fitting onto the different crown wheel carrier in the BE3/5 TK2.

2. The length of the 6 speed selector shaft is longer than the 5 speed selector shaft and does not allow it to travel far enough down to select 5th gear due to a drilling in the bell housing not being deep enough, but drilling the bell housing creates a hole and so a leak, you have to make an aluminium cap and weld it to the bell housing to seal the shaft.

3. the be3/6 has a lift type reverse cable assembly which fits into an additional fitting on the BE3/6 gearbox bell housing casing assembly. To fit this on a 405 you need all of the BE1 lift reverse mechanism and gearlever from an early 405, you then have to carfully mark and drill the casing, weld in a special made bracket to allow fitment of the lift reverse cable.

 

here is a picture of the completed assembly.

[Jer309GTi 3]

Nice one You are certainly putting a lot of effort into your Pug

[Guest pugmt]

Thanks, i am just working through all of the faults on it and getting it the best it can be before i put it on the road.

[lee-bg 0]

nice one man.

 

if i can be of help with parts or pics from Peugeot catalog, just say

 

good luck

[Baz 421]

Excellent work Chris, keep it up!

[Mandic 0]

I intend to make such conversion myself, but havent started yet.

 

Can You please write more detailed post about the convserion, when You have time...

 

Cheers & thanks

 

Ziga

[Guest pugmt]

Right then the most difficult part first, you have to strip the 2 gearboxes, 6 speed and 5 speed, all of the work revolves around the bell housing part of the gearbox. IT is not possible to modify the 6 speed casing. So you have to do mods to the 5 speed bell housing. On the 6 speed box there is a provision for the reverse lift cable to screw in, but on the 5 speed there is no such provision so you will have to make one yourself, once you have made it you will have to carefully mark out the casing and drill a 20mm hole into the casing in exactly the right place. (if you get the position wrong you will scrap the casing as you will be able to get reverse gear when going for 5th and 6th) you then weld in your bracket for the lift cable, (job done)

[Guest pugmt]

Right then the most difficult part first, you have to strip the 2 gearboxes, 6 speed and 5 speed, all of the work revolves around the bell housing part of the gearbox. IT is not possible to modify the 6 speed casing. So you have to do mods to the 5 speed bell housing. On the 6 speed box there is a provision for the reverse lift cable to screw in, but on the 5 speed there is no such provision so you will have to make one yourself, once you have made it you will have to carefully mark out the casing and drill a 20mm hole into the casing in exactly the right place. (if you get the position wrong you will scrap the casing as you will be able to get reverse gear when going for 5th and 6th) you then weld in your bracket for the lift cable, (job done)

[Guest pugmt]

the second thing is that the 6 speed control shaft is 20mm longer than on the 5 speed, this causes the shaft to hit the bottom of the bell housing and this in turn means that you cannot select 5 gear. you need to mill the bottom of the bell housing so the shaft can pass all the way thorough into the clutch space. Obviously this then causes a leak of oil past the shaft and into the clutch space. you will have to have a special alloy cap made to cover the end of the shaft which can then be precisely welded into the casing ( you need to make sure it is a perfect seal). The third point is to swap the crown wheel from the 6 speed box to the 4 wheel drive output shaft (crown wheel carrier). Then you just rebuild the gearbox with all the 6 speed parts (and i mean all) many parts are different even if they look the same.

 

If any one wants this mod carrying out then drop me a PM.

[Mandic 0]

Nice thanks!

 

Just one thing, You are saying everything must be swapped from 6 speed box, but what about gears, can lets say 4th in gti6 be replaced with 4th from BE3? Are gears interchangable?

 

Well if I'll need any help I'll certainly contact You.

 

Thanks

 

Ziga

[Guest pugmt]

The gears cannot be swapped as the cut of the teeth are different. sorry but no mix and match here i am affraid.

 

O and i forgot to mention before you will need all of a be1 gearlinkage from a very early 405 so that you have the reverse lift cable on the gear lever.

[Baz 421]

Excellent! I think it was mentionned in the other thread about '6 boxes the other day that the gears are not interchangable, as it'd be ideal if a couple could be substituted.

 

O and i forgot to mention before you will need all of a be1 gearlinkage from a very early 405 so that you have the reverse lift cable on the gear lever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ahh makes sense, the same as you'd need when converting a later 205 Gti to 6spd.

[Guest pugmt]

I have now found a way of making your Be3 gearbox stronger, you can substitute the middle casing with one from a be4 gearbox out of many late Peugeots, these benefit from strengthning ribs on the inside and outside of the casing, also some have a larger bearing diameter and an oil feed tray to fifth gear. they fit straight onto your BE3 box.

[Mandic 0]

But does the casting need strengthning at all? I think it's the gears which are a problem.

 

But good find nonetheless!

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

I have used a late late BE3 box on my T16 engine and it has the same strengthening ribs as the BE4 box.

 

My box came from a Xantia 1.9TD.

 

left is normal BE3, right is BE3 from Xantia TD

 

inside normal box

 

inside Xant TD box, notice the extra webbing

[Guest pugmt]

Yes your left hand gearbox is a very early be3 from a 405 etc, the one in the right is a late be3, you will find that all later be3 gearboxes are of the type on the right from about 1990/1991. On a later be3 (from about 1999 ) has amiddle section code be4 casing (i.e. where tyhe engine mounting screws in) has been strengthened as well especially around the 5 gear bearing area with extra oil feed rail. From about 2001/2002 the be3 became the be4, modified be3. I have now found that from about 2006 the be4 box has been strengthened still by enlargement of the 5th gear bearing.

[welshpug 1,657]

Just noticed, the images hosted directly in the thread have not been transferred, here's the original thread.

 

http://forum.405mi16.com/index.php?showtopic=636&start=0&p=5874&