5Th Gear Change?

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

Hi,is it possible to change a 5th gear cog to give more top end as im happy enough with the speed it gets to 110 in 4th but i dont want to take this pug to nurburg on a Mi16 box that hits the limiter in 5th so easily!

 

 

There are some long bits on the ring where i know the thing will be flat out and may damage the engine,bearing in mind that it has already blown up there once and had to have a rebuild!!!!!

 

Cheers

 

Liam

Edited August 14, 2012 by changingman

[Carbs4me 45]

Probly easyer to just buy a GTI-6 box in all fairness

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

I was going to say "put a 0.757 Mi16 5th gear cog in" but that obviously won't make a difference if you're running an Mi16 box!

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

You could try a 405 SRi box (if yu can find one), Mi ratios but with the 1.6 4.06 fd ratio, iirc 70mph was about 3100 rpm when I had this box on mine but the lower ratios are close to a 1.6 box up to 4th which is same as a 1.9 4th & a longer 5th.

 

g

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

What engine are you using? A 16 valver hitting the limiter in 5th on an mi box is f***ing quick (145mph + from memory).

I'm no driving god but (from memory) the only place on the ring I was close to the limiter was the straight ish bit before Schwedenkreuz and in the bottom of foxholes,that's a standard gti6 engine on a 1600 box.

 

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

Probly easyer to just buy a GTI-6 box in all fairness

 

A 6 speed one you mean?? I thought about this and dont want to loose any steering lock!!

 

 

I was going to say "put a 0.757 Mi16 5th gear cog in" but that obviously won't make a difference if you're running an Mi16 box!

 

Nice try,lol!!!

 

You could try a 405 SRi box (if yu can find one), Mi ratios but with the 1.6 4.06 fd ratio, iirc 70mph was about 3100 rpm when I had this box on mine but the lower ratios are close to a 1.6 box up to 4th which is same as a 1.9 4th & a longer 5th.

 

g

 

70 in what gear second ??? This does 65 in second on the mi16 box and hits the limiter.

 

 

 

What engine are you using? A 16 valver hitting the limiter in 5th on an mi box is f***ing quick (145mph + from memory).

I'm no driving god but (from memory) the only place on the ring I was close to the limiter was the straight ish bit before Schwedenkreuz and in the bottom of foxholes,that's a standard gti6 engine on a 1600 box.

 

Its an Mi16 engine and it hit 125 mph @5900 in 5th then i backed off,its been cammed too but i dont know what cam.It will hit the limiter in every gear on a half mile stretch of road .

 

Having said that i do not think i will see 140 out of it as is .

 

I have had a 205 gti6 conversion and also an mi16 before this and both went off the clock,i ran them both down santa pod next too each other and the gti6 was a second quicker down the strip.

 

This car died at the ring a year or so ago im told and has a full rebuild 9 months ago including belts etc,the box is very tight so i have no reason to think other wise.

 

 

 

 

Cheers fellas

 

Liam

Edited August 15, 2012 by changingman

[marksorrento205 80]

 

70 in what gear second ??? This does 65 in second on the mi16 box and hits the limiter.

 

 

I would say Graham was talking about 5th when you consider 70 mph @ 3100 rpm

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

My mildly tuned Mi16 (cammed and on bodies) has an Mi16 box and I think I've only once hit the limiter in 5th, it was, abroad, along a long straight road and quite some distance before it happened.

Although the speedo isn't entirely accurate the needle was well off the clock.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Simes

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

Hmmm.so what the hell kind of cam is in this then,it will spin in third if driven spirited enough???

 

I am impressed to say the least,just want it not to hit the limiter in 5th.

 

I suppose i could just slow down a little bit????

 

Nah,wheres the fun in that!!!

 

Does anyone know the gear ratios in an Mi16 box and are they all the same as i will get a cog machined to give me a slightly longer 5th,id love to see 150 out of this!!

 

The fastest ive been at the ring was 158 but that was in a 400+ bhp evo!!!!

[omega 82]

maybe its the final drive ratio thats been changed and not the box.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

What's the rev limit on the engine?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Its an Mi16 engine and it hit 125 mph @5900 in 5th then i backed off...... do not think i will see 140 out of it

 

If it actually was doing a true 125mph and not just indicated, then rev it to 7k rpm and that is 148mph by some very simple maths.

Personally like Allan I've done a fair few ring laps and have never seen the need for longer gearing. You will make much more time up by actually learning the corner sequences and carrying speed through them rather than trying to go 150mph on the fast bits.

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

maybe its the final drive ratio thats been changed and not the box.

 

Its a possibility!!!

 

What's the rev limit on the engine?

 

I will have to go out now and take it for a blast down the farm to find out,god damn it,why is life so hard

 

 

If it actually was doing a true 125mph and not just indicated, then rev it to 7k rpm and that is 148mph by some very simple maths.

Personally like Allan I've done a fair few ring laps and have never seen the need for longer gearing. You will make much more time up by actually learning the corner sequences and carrying speed through them rather than trying to go 150mph on the fast bits.

 

What do you mean by indicated? It was 5900 rpm and the needle sat on 125 mph.

Ive been out to the ring 3 times but that was in my evo so no comparison there really,although i bet i can do a sub 9 in the pug as i wont be standing on the brake pedal as much due to it being that bit slower.

Learn the ring!!!!

Theres 168 corners or something like that isnt there!!!!!!!

I wasnt only trying to go 150 on the fast bits,what im getting at is i dont want to rag it round on the limiter in 5th on the bits it is capable of reaching it on,just wanting a slightly longer 5th so i can hit 150 should the occaision arise and not be wringing its neck in 5th and coming home with a bag of engine bits!!!!

 

And is it possible for an Mi16 engine to reach 148 on an Mi16 box,i only ask as i dont know,my last Mi16 went off the clock to somewhere near that but as its off the clock i couldnt say for definate!!!

 

I am not a silly little boy racer making these numbers up btw i am a responsible adult that has never grown up !!!!

Edited August 16, 2012 by changingman

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Indicated meaning what the speedo was telling you, it may come as a great surprise to you but the 205 speedo isn't the most accurate thing in the world hence my use of "indicated" and "true".

 

Anyway good luck.

[welshpug 1,661]

My 8v will spin in 3rd if im being a d*ck.

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

Indicated meaning what the speedo was telling you, it may come as a great surprise to you but the 205 speedo isn't the most accurate thing in the world hence my use of "indicated" and "true".

 

Anyway good luck.

 

Ahh i see,it had crossed my mind that the speedo and the rev counter werent state of the art,lol!!!!

 

My 8v will spin in 3rd if im being a d*ck.

 

I am one at the best of times but i wasnt driving like one !!!

 

 

 

cheers for all the replies folks,im off to get it set up on a rolling road and then ill take it from there.

 

Cheers

 

Liam

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

70 in what gear second ??? This does 65 in second on the mi16 box and hits

the limiter.

fifth, standard Mi limiter is @ 7200 rpm iirc which would see about 65 in 2nd on the 405 Sri box (same as a 1.6 box for 2nd gear max speed).

 

A six speed box wouldn't give you a much better cruising or max speed, afaik the sixth gear ratio is about the same as the 1.9 fifth.

 

g

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

fifth, standard Mi limiter is @ 7200 rpm iirc which would see about 65 in 2nd on the 405 Sri box (same as a 1.6 box for 2nd gear max speed).

 

A six speed box wouldn't give you a much better cruising or max speed, afaik the sixth gear ratio is about the same as the 1.9 fifth.

 

g

 

Right,seems as though the answer is simples......get a longer 5th cog!!!

 

If i can get 150 out of thisbefore it hit the limiter then i will be happy doing 140 comfortably!!

 

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen.

 

My next question is what 5 speed box if any will see it 150 ????

 

Liam

[welshpug 1,661]

as tom said, 7k in an Mi 5th is around 148, so why do you need to change it? you'll see about 6600 at 140.

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

as tom said, 7k in an Mi 5th is around 148, so why do you need to change it? you'll see about 6600 at 140.

 

 

Right,im going to ring its neck in 5th a few times tomorrow and see what the speedo says im doing alongside my sat nav and if im doing 145 @7k then ill just have to live with it.

 

 

Can i put more air in the tyres to make it lighter :D :D

All im trying to do is not destroy the engine by repeatedly hitting the limiter in top as i do like to go as fast as i can make it go on the tracks where its capable of doing it.

[welshpug 1,661]

I just checked the gear calculator, you'll be doing around 140 if its an MI box, 144 if its a xsara vts box as its ever so slightly longer 5th gear.

 

I know my gti6 engine+xsara box in a ZX would pull right to the limiter in 5th, which is 7450 rpm and 153mph on 195 50's, it took a couple of miles to get there so I really wouldn't want a longer 5th.

 

 

a gti6 box will only give 146 @ 7k, 155 @ 7450 for the 4.05 version, if its the 3.95 fd version it'll be 149/159 at 7000/7450 respectively.

Edited August 17, 2012 by welshpug

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

I just checked the gear calculator, you'll be doing around 140 if its an MI box, 144 if its a xsara vts box as its ever so slightly longer 5th gear.

 

I know my gti6 engine+xsara box in a ZX would pull right to the limiter in 5th, which is 7450 rpm and 153mph on 195 50's, it took a couple of miles to get there so I really wouldn't want a longer 5th.

 

 

a gti6 box will only give 146 @ 7k, 155 @ 7450 for the 4.05 version, if its the 3.95 fd version it'll be 149/159 at 7000/7450 respectively.

 

 

Well,ive just been out around the farm and alli can get it to is 139/140 @ 6900 rpm which has made me feel better due to it not being able to hit the limiter in 5th anymore.

All ive done is new lead,coil and ignition amp and this has some how stopped it hitting the limiter in 5th???

 

Having said that it will now do 118 before it hits the limiter in 4th !!

 

Cars,who understands them eh,haha!!!

 

Thanks folks,ill just live with it like this