Here We Go Again Another 16V Dreamer

[309jazzpanda 41]

Right here we go, I'm tempted by the crazy notion of building a 16v 1600 xu engine. Now this is all theoretical for now but can it be done?, i've done some searching on here but the thread never gets finished so don't know what the final product is, one thread I did see was talking about using an xu7 block though is it possible to use the xu5?, please DON'T reply with "put a tu in it mate" because its not really very helpful/relevant to the thread. Remember this is all theory for now just wondering if its do-able, thanks guys, Andy.

[dcc 855]

Yes it can be done. I'm sure there was a thread or 2 on this a few months/years ago.

 

have a search.

[309jazzpanda 41]

as stated in 1st post have used the search facility but threads aren't finished so unable to answer my questions

[MiniGibbo 142]

Do it brake the mould..!

 

Everyone says I'm mad for wanting to keep 1400 but bollocks to them I say lol.

[309jazzpanda 41]

yeah its kind of why I would like to learn about it, theres no wool on my back why be a sheep

[Anthony 1,003]

1600 Mi16's have been done a fair few times, but it's not cheap to do properly.

 

There's definitely several out there and running - here's just one, found from a quick search: clicky

 

Also, if you have a look on YouTube for "Ginjaspeed" you'll find videos of a 1600 Mi16 rally car belonging to a member of the same name on here.

[welshpug 1,661]

Im afraid those threads are generally as far as anyine has gone with a few non forum exceptions.

 

What more do you want to know?

 

Basic recipie is,

 

Xu5 crank

 

Xu5/7 rods (the same part number, though do have a pistin oil jet) obviously if you want to do a proper job these would be custom aftermarket ones, 45 mm big ends

 

Xu5/7/9 liners

 

Easiest block to use is an xu7 imo, given they are much newer and will also accept the xu10j4r or rs heads

Without any faffing with the timing belt covers or belt kits

 

Head i would use any of the later heads as they have smaller chambers, making it easier to get the compression up, and less oil control issues. Xu7 is a nice almost blank canvas for port shape on the inlet side, j4r said to flow as well as an mi, j4rs maybe too big for a small cc engine.

 

Pistons you will need custom ones, as you need to get the compression up, there are no standard items that will get it high enough really, some modified xu9j2 ones will give mid 9's to one.

 

Sandy has built a similar engine, using an ew7 base engine and xu5 crank, went into a visa!! So he will have details of specifics if you want one built, i never heard what it made but sandy was pleased with it i believe, id be interested to hear how it came out as ive got all the basic elements for this build.

 

[309jazzpanda 41]

I think a pm to sandy is required, apart from the expense of custom pistons it doesn't seem such a difficult build that everyone makes out it is. the xu5 block is no good then, shame see i've got an xu5 engine so its a start ha ha. Which engine is the j4r? is that like the 2.0 convertible 306?

[Anthony 1,003]

XU10J4R was the 136hp 2.0 16v as found in various late 90's Peugeot and Citroen models - 306's, 406's, Xantia's etc.

[309jazzpanda 41]

Good good there's one for sale near me, would this be possible on standard management?

[welshpug 1,661]

 

 

no

[tri_longer 25]

my mate who doesn't come on here has just had one built for rallying, we should see next weekend what i is like at Barkston Heath. His was a no expense spared, including forged crank, liners, rod & pistons, so yes it can be done but it can be very expensive if you let it.

[Batfink 201]

why did he replace the liners? Did he up the capacity?

[Baz 421]

The best engine for a >1600cc class 205 rally car.

[309jazzpanda 41]

Well that's what made me think of it but I've spoken to Sandy today via pm and it seems that there's a reason there aren't many about

[309jazzpanda 41]

Though I did just watch ginja speed video and it sounds fantastic

Edited August 12, 2012 by 309jazzpanda

[tri_longer 25]

why did he replace the liners? Did he up the capacity?

 

I believe so, though I couldn't tell you what it actually is

[Baz 421]

Well that's what made me think of it but I've spoken to Sandy today via pm and it seems that there's a reason there aren't many about

 

Go on...?

[309jazzpanda 41]

Well for the effort required to get decent compression its a lot of money to do it properly

[Baz 421]

That's already been said, pistons & rods ideally need to be custom.

[petert 588]

If I were building a 1.6L 16V XU, I'd use custom rods and pistons. The rods need to be 45mm big end and 22mm Mi16 small end. Piston needs to be forged Mi16 with at least 4cc dome, probably more. Having a lesser rod wouldn't necessarily allow the full RPM potential of the engine to be reached. If it doesn't spin to 8500 there's really not much point in building it.

Edited August 13, 2012 by petert

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

At those revs you also need to upgrade the head to solid lifters etc. and I believe that is at least the same cost as custom rods and pistons.

 

Mine costed about 10000£ all in all, that included all the machining work, and parts that were bought for it and I think you need to do almost as much custom as I did on the 2.3 to get the 1.6 Mi16 sorted properly.

 

Luckily parts prices has dropped a bit since I was building mine

[309jazzpanda 41]

That is a hefty sum of money really, it would be nice to build one but for now that's over budget, think I'm going to have to follow the flock and go tu, now to find a be4 box. But for future reference any good suppliers of rods and pistons to recommend?

[welshpug 1,661]

Decent set of rods and pistons probably cost about the same as doing a decent be4 conversion i would imagine.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Rods and pistons are quite cheap these days, what costed most on mine were the cams, mech followers, valvesprings, retainers etc. + porting work. You don't really need that though, and my sum includes management, throttlebodies etc. everything related to the engine really.