Turreting The Rear

[jonb_5 6]

Hi,

 

I have been thinking of having the rear of my 205 converted to run coil-overs as many have already done for competition use.

 

My question is does anyone know how much it might cost, I have contacted the usual people who may do this for me and am awaiting a response but if anyone has had it done a ball park figure?

 

I am trying to decide whether to do this or stick with up-rating the torsion bars etc.

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[Baz 421]

I'd check that the regs for whatever you want to do with your car allow it first.

[jonb_5 6]

I took some advice on this and as long as there is a form of torsion bar still in place, which I would need to hold the trailing arms together as far as I know it will be OK.

 

There are a couple of cars running a similar set-up in the south west, apparently from Colin Satchel.

 

Thanks

Jon

[welshpug 1,655]

what will it be used for?

[Cameron 16]

A quick phone call to MSA Technical will sort it out for you.

[tri_longer 25]

I guess it depends on how you interpret S 12.8.5. Suspension pick-up point positions may be

altered, providing the suspension system is maintainedas being the original type.

[welshpug 1,655]

if its a stage car I believe it's ok on a Cat2 logbook.

[jonb_5 6]

It will be used for hill climbing in class C2, modified limited production car.

Thanks

Jon

[tri_longer 25]

Before you commence work I would get a scrutineer to give you the rubber stamp on this as I don't intrepret what you are planning as complying with the regs in that class.

 

I accept you are leaving a torsion bar in place (though i assume it will be a token effort), and pick up points can be changed, but you are changing it to coilvers which is not what the standard set up is on a 205. The last thing you want is to end up in Sports Libre.

[calvinhorse 870]

Retaining torsion bars + coilovers + strengthening and shell modifications.. Sounds heavy

[Batfink 201]

Colins car was like this and was still under 700kg so it does not add that much weight. Torsion bars can have their splines removed to disconnect them so you can control them fully with the coilovers. Its probably 10kg of extra weight at worst.

[custard-rallye 25]

Is it worth doing?

[welshpug 1,655]

of course!

[Sandy 191]

Change of damper location and additional springing is 100% legal in mod prod. The work involved though, to do it right and safely is extensive, I wouldn't consider tackling it yourself unless you're an chassis engineer of Colin's calibre!

[Cameron 16]

Strange.. I know a few people who aren't even engineers that have managed to pull it off successfully!

 

As long as you can use a grinder and welder to a decent standard you'll be fine, if not then get any good fabricator to do the dirty work for you. Make sure you get the tops of the turrets in the same location side-side you'll be laughing.

[jonb_5 6]

Does anyone know how much this might cost, I don't think my skills would stretch this far....

 

Thanks

 

Jon

[Batfink 201]

Sandy or I can give you Colins number so you can call him?

[jonb_5 6]

That would be great, thank you.

[Sandy 191]

Strange.. I know a few people who aren't even engineers that have managed to pull it off successfully!

 

As long as you can use a grinder and welder to a decent standard you'll be fine, if not then get any good fabricator to do the dirty work for you. Make sure you get the tops of the turrets in the same location side-side you'll be laughing.

 

There's rather more to it to doing it right and making it safe than just making a turret. Like so many areas of a car, there's space between making something that appears to work and making something that really works, you've suprised me there TBH.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Sandy

[Cameron 16]

Yes but you could say the same for anything, you don't need to be a chassis engineer to install a roll cage, but I'd consider that to be rather more safety critical than some sheet metal turrets on the inner arches.. still, any fabricator-welder could do it and do a good job.

 

I'm not saying that everyone should try it, of course it should only be attempted by people who know what they're doing; but attempts to make the job appear so difficult that it should only be carried out by Mr Satchel grates on me a little.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Cameron

[Sandy 191]

The problem is, I can't detail all the important issues without simply giving away all the development Colin has done! For sure pretty much anyone can break out a grinder and a MIG and go for it; that's pretty much how anyone, including Colin, starts out. The turret itself is only part of the job though and that's what you've blatantly missed in your enthusiasm to criticise. The damper choice is important, the damper attachments are important (an element that most of the turret conversions I've seen have run a serious fatigue risk) and the way the trailing arm is modified is critically important to safety and ensuring the design won't bind as it travels or droop in an undesired way.

 

Colin is by no means the only person that can do this work and indeed he's probably too busy to consider doing it for anyone other than exisiting customers; but what I know, is he's spent over a decade evolving the design through actual use in a range of disciplines. So forgive me if I'm a bit of a snob about it.

[custard-rallye 25]

Who else can do it if he is to busy for new customer's?

[Cameron 16]

I understand, but people shouldn't be discouraged from attempting their own development, especially by people who's opinions are generally held in very high regard by members of this forum. I liken it to Kwik-Fit telling me that it's dangerous to track my car using a string box, and that I will crash and kill people unless I use their specialist "skills" and equipment.

 

Clearly you need to have some sort of clue about what you're doing, and at the very least seek advice if you aren't 100% confident, but the basic geometry is very simple as is the sheet metal work required. As you said, even Colin had to start somewhere, I'm sure his first attempt had it's issues! But there's nothing wrong with other people discovering these problems for themselves.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Cameron

[TT205 42]

even Colin had to start somewhere, I'm sure his first attempt had it's issues! But there's nothing wrong with other people discovering these problems for themselves.

 

I think the point you are missing is that clearly the OP isn't confident to do this himself though and therefore won't want to discover any 'problems' or issues for himself

 

I wouldn't want to attempt this myself and therefore if I was paying someone to do it I would want it to work out of the box and be problem free barring wear and tear for the life of the car

[Cameron 16]

No I understand that, but it isn't the point I'm making. The OP can take his car to any competent motorsport fabricators to have the work done, it doesn't have to be exclusive to Sandy & Colin, especially as they're unable to take on new customers. To tell someone you're the only person you'd trust to do the job, then follow up by refusing to do it for them is a bit much, don't you think?