Retrofitting Abs - Interest/shopping List

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Hello!

 

Now the 205 is functioning and back on the road, naturally I need to start planning for the next time I park it up and take it to bits, and my excuse I have come up with is fitting ABS! (mad, I know, but no need to dwell on that..)

 

A while on the google search on the forum has lead me to believe that the 4 channel system (bendix?) from a 306 is the way forward.. is this the case?

 

I have sourced up a pair of ABS front hubs and driveshafts recently, are they still suitable to use regarding sensors/teeth numbers?

 

Which age of 306 is best suited to raid the ABS system from, and what is the best solution for the rear, regarding trailing arms? Keeping standard rear geometry would be preferred for what is a fairly standard roadcar. I know the ZX ones alter the camber, is the same true with 306 arms? Or could the arms be modified to allow fitting of a sensor easily enough?

 

Its not something Im going to rush into, but building a pile of parts and some knowledge would be useful

 

Cheers

 

Craig

Edited July 2, 2012 by cRaig

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

Rear arms are easy, the sensor fits into the caliper bracket, so you could bolt them on to your existing trailing arms. You would need to use 306/Xsara (same thing) rear wheel bearings, stub axles and bearing spacers, this would gain you about 6mm per side track width.

 

As for the front, I have a feeling the 205 tooth count is different, but this should be fairly easy to verify, and easy enough to overcome by using 306 outer CV joints.

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

So aquire the slightly different caliper brackets from the scrappy as well? Sounds easier than I thought for the rear!

 

I guess the main thing before I get started is making sure I pick the most ideal donor vehicle in the scrapyard, would be tedious to spend a while removing all the kit off the wrong age/model of abs!

 

Craig

[welshpug 1,655]

You could use a 106/Saxo pump as well, it is very easy to remove the whole loom as it is pretty much totally self contained bar the wire for the warning light, I haven't taken the loom from a 306 so not sure if its similar, would imagine it was.

 

you don't want a phase3 306 or phase2 xsara system as most have EBD and no rear load compensator.

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Okay..a few more questions for now (mainly worrying about the front for now!)

 

Have now got 205 ABS hubs- are the wheel bearings standard 1.9 or is there a ABS specific one?

Do 306 wheel sensors bolt directly to the hubs?

Is there a decent make of outer CV joint I should be looking for to replace the 205 ABS outer joints?

 

Thanks

 

Craig

[welshpug 1,655]

yep standard bearings+drive flange, hubs are the same bar the hole for the sensor.

 

306 sensor will fit, 306 hubs early on are identical bar the angle of the strut clamp, later on they had hollow cast construction and larger BJ pin.

 

I'm not 100% but I don't think you can swap the CV's that easily, from memory the spline count is much higher on the ABS cv+shaft, apart from that they are identical to non ABS 1.9, used to be able to check on the AMK catalogue but its changed and I lost a ton of useful info when my hard drives dies a few months back.

 

you also need to check that 205 outers have the same spline count as the 306/zx/xsara rear hubs.

[Anthony 1,002]

Later 306/Xsara CV's can't be swapped over onto 205/309 shafts, but early ZX ones I believe can be.

 

I'm slowly acquiring the bits for a similar 4 channel ABS installation myself.

 

If you do a search, I know that Brian_J has got such a setup installed and working.

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Thanks From a quick search there seem to be 29 teeth and 42 teeth ZX CV joints, I guess it depends if it is the earlier or later ABS system. I guess the correct order to do things is source a ABS kit, and then get CV joints to match?

 

If its a system from an earlier 306 I am after, which is the year cut off? Or anything up until 97?

 

Will look out posts by Brian_J for further info soon

 

Craig

[welshpug 1,655]

my 92/3 ZX's have the 29 T cv's, same as later pugs, got Xsara driveshafts in at the moment.

[Alastairh 47]

Am i right in saying the cv joints with 42 teeth are the ones with the abs ring cast into the joint, where as the 29 teeth are the crap ones where the ring is a push / press fit and breaks and causes 90% of abs failiures?

 

Al

[welshpug 1,655]

kinda, all mine are machined, I think its mostly aftermarket, and Renault, that are pressed on rings, you can buy many as spares now.

Edited July 4, 2012 by welshpug

[brian j 32]

Here goes:

I had abs to start with which made life easier but to do it the way I did you need:

Bosch 5.3 abs from a 306 ph2 97-2000ish without EBD. (if it has the load compensator on the rear beam, and a bosch ecu, it's right.

Get the pump, and complete wiring loom (it's separate)

Rear arms wise I went for the complete ones from a xsara, but I'm sure you could swap the bits.

Front hubs can come from an abs 205 ( the sensors are fine too) or an early 306 and machined to sort camber

 

 

(null)

[brian j 32]

What i did with the cvs was got the very early 29 tooth zx ones which are correct for bosch abs and fit straight on I fitted the 205 1.9 shafts.

I put the pump below the expansion tank in the normal 205 location, the wiring requires earth, permanent and switched feeds, a wire to the brake pedal switch and a link to the abs light in the cluster.

It took me a day to fit the pump and wire it up.

The only thing I didn't have to do was sort the laid compensator because that are standard on abs 205s

They're easy to fit though so just take it an all bracketry from your donor 306.

The thing that took time for me was making and running all new brake pipes.

It was a pig to bleed the first time too...

 

 

(null)

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

I was hoping you would find this thread eventually. Thanks for the input!

 

If you had some photos of how the pump mounts, they would be amazingly useful- as I havent seen the standard 205 location, and would like to see what Im aiming for for a roughy OE look

Also, presumably does my cluster have an ABS light? (Ph.2 1991) If so, does anyone know what pins/whereabouts on the cluster I would find the relevant wires?

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

Edited July 24, 2012 by cRaig

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Another question- am I ok to use my 406 (non ABS 4 outlet master cylinder) with the ABS system? Would like to keep the master cylinder as it was new for the rebuild, and keep the 306 gti6 front calipers with standard rear calipers.

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

Edited July 27, 2012 by cRaig

[Ryan 99]

The only real difference between ABS and non-ABS master cylinders is that the ABS one only has 2 outlets that feed into the ABS pump, whereas the non-ABS one has 4 that go directly to each wheel. Other than that there's no difference, so you can just blank off the two ports you don't need.

 

My 1990 non-quite-ph2 has the ABS light, so it should be there on yours (assuming the clocks have never been changed).

Edited July 27, 2012 by Ryan

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

If you'd after the 306 rear stubs, calliper brackets etc give me shout as I've got all that going spare.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

If you need a 306 ABS pump I have a couple here.

[ade 4wd 11]

Have a look in your engine bay between the header tank and the relay box, if there is a white 2 pin connector thats not connected, thats used for ABS. One pin is switched 12V, the other is for the warning lamp on the dash.

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Have a look in your engine bay between the header tank and the relay box, if there is a white 2 pin connector thats not connected, thats used for ABS. One pin is switched 12V, the other is for the warning lamp on the dash.

 

Ah, excellent. That plug is present- Ive had a quick look, and there is a switched live present, but connecting the other pin to live doesnt light anything up on the dash. Is there anything obvious to check?

Cheers,

 

Craig

[Alastairh 47]

Does it have a bulb in the back of the dials for it?

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Sounds like an obvious place to start I guess Does anyone know which bulb it should be on the back of the dials?

 

Cheers

[Ryan 99]

It's in one of the bottom corners of either the speedo or the rev counter.

 

You can steal the bulb out of the choke light, as they always seem to have a bulb in, even though they're not connected on the GTI.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Ryan

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Does anyone know which bulb it should be on the back of the dials?

 

1.2w I think.

 

 

Couldn't resist.

[cRaig 273 1 Cars]

Had a rummage around the local scrapyard, most of the 306s had ABS with drums on the back. There was one 1998 'R419 XDT' with rear discs (not sure if the system is any different, but it seems like a prudent precaution to pick one that does have discs) which I think is a 2.0 XSI. Seemed to be the right system I should be looking for, with what look likes a load compensator bolted to the beam.

If someone could confirm that is the most suitable 306, I will think about removing the system complete. Would be shame to waste quite alot of time removing the wrong system

 

Cheers,

 

Craig