Bad Words About 309 Beams

[Batfink 201]

Fit a 309 beam, fit 309 front wishbones... argument sorted lol

[Baz 421]

Erm, how so?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I think it is down to personal preference really, it does make the back of the car very stable. I quite like the super wide beam on the back of my turbo, 309 tube, Xsara VTS arms, plus a 4mm shim each side to make the vented discs line up with the calipers, with over 200ftlb of torque you've enough to think about without having to worry about the back having a mind of its own. On my track car I have a 205 width beam though.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

mine has a 309 beam, with 24mm ARB, and std TB

 

with et15 wheels and r888's or a048s (current setup) there is absolutly no room left between tyre and arch

 

 

but since i've had the beam, i have no or limited (very) lift off over steer

 

I'm 'surprised' your running standard TB's actually Steve, I would have assumed you had thicker.

 

From seeing your car perform I think I could be happy with a similar set up.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

If the 309 beam is "available" at a good price, why not buy it, rebuild it, then sell it on? You could then use the money to build a 205 beam with thicker TB's and ARB, without being limited on tyre choice and ride height.

 

I think I will just buy the 309 beam anyway before I've decided what to fit. Doesn't hurt to have the option there and move it on if I decide to stick with 205 beam.

[Spiky 37]

I'm 'surprised' your running standard TB's actually Steve, I would have assumed you had thicker.

 

From seeing your car perform I think I could be happy with a similar set up.

 

it feels quite balanced at the moment

[Batfink 201]

Erm, how so?

 

Because you widen the front track width as well as the back.. Theres nothing wrong with a 309 beam if you keep the track width ratios the same. Not saying that its better as widening the front instead of the rear would reap more benefits but its a solution to get the better looking stance with the wheels tucked up close to the bodywork.

 

Anyone fancy working out the track width ratio differences? Obviously you have a difference with the drum brakes vs disc as well..

Edited July 3, 2012 by Batfink

[Cameron 16]

Nope.

[Batfink 201]

I dont either lol but it would be a useful guide

[jord294 92]

EVERYBODY has a different opinion.

 

but my preference is 309 gti wishbones, driveshafts and rear beam on a 205 gti FTW

[Carbs4me 45]

I got my 309 Gti beam off jord above lowered 30m, Sure has improved the car and i no longer get that sketchyness when going into those long corners that gradually get tighter, and the back end feels awhole lot diffrent more stable, less whip.

 

Im still running on the front end a standard setup apart from the suspension. moving towards a 309 front setup when i get the car off the road for a rebuild.

 

in my opinion, it seemed alot harder to turn on the spot while standing still and those really small tight bends maybe it loses abit of its nibbleness there! but all in all its a good replacement!

 

Id recommend using jord if you where to buy one!

[Cameron 16]

309 wishbones = more camber = more better.

[rallyeash 155]

my 205 is definatley more skitish on the back with 205 gti beam around circuits than it used to be when i had a 309 beam fitted.

[Baz 421]

Because you widen the front track width as well as the back..

 

I meant about sorting the argument, the rear will still be wider than the front even with 309 front setup, you don't actually gain anything in the way of track width really! You'd be better off with 1.6 front running gear for that argument!

Edited July 3, 2012 by Baz

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

309 wishbones = more camber = more better.

 

Edited July 3, 2012 by chipstick

[Alastairh 47]

Personally i am a fan of the 309 beam. 309 GTi front wishbones is deffinatly a good upgrade. Fully setup the negative camber gain is ideal for level tyre ware from my experience for fast road. With the 205 wishbones i was killing the outer edges of the tyres.

 

Certinly buy it and keep it stashed away for a rainy day.

 

Al

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

They are only 'worth' about 10% more than a 205 beam aren't they?

 

A rebuild would be essential regardless IMO, but just hope the tube and shafts are ok. It's been sat around a while so I'm expecting the worst in all fairness. Not a lot I can do I dont think without stripping it down there and then.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

I'm actually looking at going the other direction, from a 309 beam to an uprated 205 one. Main reason is I'm fed up of limited suspension travel and rubbing arches. Obviously, the beam height is matched to the front but in doing so, the arms are always on the bump stops which itself makes it 'interesting' on the limit. Get rid of the stops, or trim them down you might say, but they need to stay or my tyres will totally wreck the arches.

 

Nah, a 205 beam with uprated bars and my ZX arms ( which I believe increase track width anyway because of the ABS rings).

[welshpug 1,658]

you don't really want rid of the stops or to cut them own as it not only gives arch and fuel filler issues, but gives a very abrupt end to the suspension movement, and hence grip!

[Doof 11]

I think you're convincing me to do the same Alan. I don't like the idea of limited travel and constant riding on bumpstops.

[Baz 421]

you don't really want rid of the stops or to cut them own as it not only gives arch and fuel filler issues, but gives a very abrupt end to the suspension movement, and hence grip!

 

Swings & roundabouts; If you don't cut them down at least a little, you run out of suspension travel early and therefore sacrifice handling. It's another achilles heel to the 205. I trim them down a little (10-15mm) but don't run silly-low ride heights so i don't get any arch/filler rubbing issues.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Baz

[jord294 92]

as baz says.

 

don't have the ride height set too low

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Have to agree if you run a 205 beam too low you'll encounter the exact same problem of limited suspension travel, just sounds like the ride height is set to low, rather than it being the 309 axle that is the problem. Never had a problem with catching the rear arches, ran koni yellow dampers, but if your worried, just take off some of the return on the plastic arch.

[lemmingzappa 75 1 Cars]

I love the stance on my 309 beam, and I agree it makes the rear end feel more stable generally. Only trouble I've had is rubbing under stress with 7J wheels.

 

I wouldn't say it handles any better though, just feels less frantic.

Edited July 3, 2012 by lemmingzappa

[Anthony 1,003]

I've driven dozens of cars with both beams and I've personally had both on my own cars.

 

As has been said previously, it's somewhat of a personal preference thing, but roughly speaking, the advantages and disadvantages are as follows:

 

Advantages:

• Modest increase in torsion and anti-roll bar stiffness as standard over a 205 beam, meaning it tends to match the spring rates of typical lowering springs
  
• Makes the rear wheels fill out the rear arches nicely
  
• Gives the car a noticeably more "planted" feel and (IMO) feels more confidence inspiring when pressing on
  
• Cheaper than a 205 beam with uprated torsion bars
  

Disadvantages:

• You lose a little of the agility and throttle adjustability that you have with the 205 beam, although LOO is still there on demand
  
• You're limited when it comes to running wider wheels/tyres on a lowered car
  
• You can't run the car quite as low as you can with a 205 beam as the tyre can hit the inside of the plastic arch (not a problem and it will normally trim itself) and the metal arch if you've cut down the bump stops significantly (much more of an issue!). That said, you can still run low enough that you're past the point that the front suspension geometry is compromised
  

309 GTi beams were a common/popular fitment a few years back given their common availability and the lack of availability of uprated torsion / anti-roll bars, but they're perhaps less so these days given that they're getting a bit thin on the ground now (and usually in quite poor condition - certainly bank on it needing a rebuild) and easy access to uprated bars means that a 205 beam can be easily stiffened up.

 

As said, I've had both and am happy with both options. My previous 205 had a 309 beam on it for years, which I still have and am keeping for a rainy day, whereas my current 205 has a 205 beam with mildly uprated bars.