Be Box Rebuild/refresh/refurb Part Sourcing, And Be1-3 Part Crossover

[welshpug 1,661]

Just trying to figure out the best way to approach a gearbox rebuild, I have a BE1 box which crunches into 2nd and 3rd, not all the time but quite often, and fancy doing a decent job.

 

Have got a list of part numbers form Servicebox and spotted a rebuild kit which seems significantly better value than buying the bearings individually, its £132 (2299 37, same for a BE1 and BE3)

 

As far as I can see all I need additionally is the nuts for the ends of the shafts (2304 81, £3 each) plus whatever is causing the crunching and some decent oil.

 

Or can I save a bit getting the standardised bearings elsewhere?

 

I know the one for the outer end of the second shaft has a large circlip so is specific to a pug box so likely to be more difficult to get outside the dealer network but the others appear to be easy enough.

 

 

And lastly how compatible are BE1/3 synchro hubs etc?

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Got a BE1 box and various gubbins if you need any bits for your box?

[welshpug 1,661]

Will bear you in mind thanks Dan.

 

Done a bit of searching with the dimensions and found a few part numbers.

 

Diff bearings are SKF part No JL69345F310Q, they cost £39 EACH from Peugeot now (3125 18 , BRG 38x63-17)

 

2nd shaft bearings I believe are taper and are 32005's which I can get for about £16 by SKF, rather than the £35 pug want (2372 40, BRG 25x47-15)

 

 

 

Input shaft struggling a little with, that is 2317 66 brg 36x72-17.5 £54.70!!!

 

the needle roller bearing, 2317 41, 35.8x52-2 I doubt I will find or need to get cheaper, its £6.80!

[welshpug 1,661]

I see Miles does the diff bearings for £40 a pair, and the input shaft bearings at £40 which is a lot cheaper than I've found them.

[mikeyd 13]

the syncro hubs are different but the be1 s are no longer available [just had to change my rally box to be 3 as a result]

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but do these parts apply to the 6 speed box too?

[welshpug 1,661]

Most of them Alan, the 6 speed unit has two more bearings in the alloy end casing which are marked NFP on Servicebox, as is the repair kit 2299 47, listed at £280

 

Mikey, I understand that there may be differences to a BE3 box, but does that stop me from using them?...

[welshpug 1,661]

Helped my mate Pugtop strip a box down last week as it was making a horrible racket, and we were intrigued to see what was actually wrong and get some practice before I have a crack at doing my own one and putting it back together.

 

Didn't bode well when the gear oil had a lovely shiny yellowy tint, almost like glitter!

 

thought maybe 5th gear nuts might have come loose but no, they were tight, and evidently had been apart previously as they were staked about 5 degrees past their original marks, no play in the shafts so cracked on with taking 5th gear off and the selector, then the main casing, removed the selector roll pin and slid out the shaft, then lifted out the two shafts.

 

hmm, that doesn't look quite right...

 

 

 

that'll be a toasted and warped synchro! it was rattling about on the shaft too, which was where the noise was coming from though the gears still selected ok.

 

 

 

 

 

oooo pretty!

 

 

 

also oddly 4th gear synchro was worn smooth and the outer steel part discoloured from heat, 3rd looked positively mint!

 

so at that point we called it a day and let the owner know, he's going to look for a decent 1.9 BE3 box.

 

So, here's my original gearbox from my May 11th 89 built car, I'd swapped it for a £20 box I had picked up on Ebay several years ago but not got round to fitting till recently, it had been used with Rose jointed linkages but luckily they were the same type of arms as my box, there are a few so I was lucky there.

 

 

Popped the speedo drive housing off the diff casing (three 13mm bolts) then upended the box to make it easier to work on.

 

 

bits in sealed bags, end casing and bolts already scrubbed, need to give it a rubbing down and a coat of paint, speedo drive as is.

 

Edited August 19, 2012 by welshpug

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You'll find loads of differences and what can and cannot be used, Some are not visible to the eye really either, This applies to 1 bearing too

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

You could try these for cheaper bearings http://www.brammer.co.uk/

[welshpug 1,661]

You'll find loads of differences and what can and cannot be used, Some are not visible to the eye really either, This applies to 1 bearing too

 

I'll make sure to check all the bits I use, though if the difference cannot be seen or measured, surely there is no difference?

 

thanks for the link Alex, but a few of the bearings are specific to pug gearboxes and are only available from transmission specialists (specifically vehicle rather than industrial), not the typical bearing supplier, I don't know why that is or where these specialists get them though worth a try though!

Edited August 20, 2012 by welshpug

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Just one is Pug only, the rest are easy to find,

[welshpug 1,661]

Picked up a socket after work;

 

 

 

 

 

Then cracked on with getting it apart, remembering the order to do things from the Haynes manual.

 

here's 5th gear assembly, and the pesky ball bearing that loves to ping off as you pull the selector arms off the shaft.

 

 

undo the three retaining bolts, two above the bearing and one for the selector shafts, then remove the circlip from the bearing.

 

 

then undo all the 11mm bolts, on a BE1 a pair of them also hold the clutch cable bracket in lace, and lastly the 13mm bolt for reverse gear and lift the casing off.

 

 

 

Have a peek at the Magnet, see how much is stuck to it, oh what's that?....

 

 

 

aha! now that'll be why 3rd and 4th crunched!!

 

 

 

remove the top selector arm, two roll pins, then push it inwards off the selector shaft, then remove the shaft by knocking out the two roll pins and sliding it out, re-assembled so I dont lose anything.

 

 

 

stick the bolt in the reverse idler gear shaft and lift it up.

 

 

then lift the clusters out

 

Edited August 20, 2012 by welshpug

[welshpug 1,661]

aha!! that's where that spring clip thing is meant to live, which explains the 3/4 gear crunch!

 

 

 

I expected to see discoloured or worn synchro's, but they all look fine, and I can't remember if any other gears crunched, if these clips were easily available new I'd replace all of them.

 

 

 

and this is as far as I got this evening, didn't take long at all but can;t do any more as I haven't any bearing pullers other than a normal two legged thing which is totally unsuitable for drawing the input shaft bearings off.

 

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

I did a type 9 last month for my kit car; was a very therapeutic process - I quite like doing gearboxes

[welshpug 1,661]

yeah, I'm quite satisfied and pleased with how far I've got without needing any special tools, stuck now without a bearing separator though, that's in the post ! new tools!

 

Split the diff casing this evening, mainly to check the bearings but also to have a general look over, lucky I did as the planet gears look a bit tired.

 

 

 

 

 

then faffed about removing the output shaft pinion end bearing clip, which took longer than getting the bearing off!

 

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

I'm re-building a BE1 at home at the moment, but only so I could get the casing vapour blasted.

The gearbox worked fine, so the only things I'm changing are 4 seals, 2 'O' rings and a gasket.

I was quite supprised how easy it came apart into its major assemblies and it seems straight forward putting it back together so far.

But if anyone is thinking on stripping the gearbox casing for vapour blasting, then go for it if you've tackled anything like, say a headgasket change.

I did follow the Haynes workshop manual, as it's got the full strip down of the gearbox in it (it's not in the thinner owners one) which made things easier, but I could have managed without it.

 

What Welshpug is taking on looks a little more involved though and I'm too following this with intrest.

[welshpug 1,661]

I found my local Brammer branch earlier today, they can do the taper bearings but may struggle with the other pair, they have actually sold one of the ones with the outer circlip groove according to their system, back in 1999

[welshpug 1,661]

Heard back from Brammer the same day, they couldn't do the pinion shaft outer end bearing (pug part # 2317 77, £49.77)

 

Their price for the diff bearings (JL69349A/69310) were a little less than Peugeot at £30.88. (pug part # 3125 18, £34.79)

 

Input shaft bearings (32005X) were better at £14. (Pug part # 2372 40 £35.66)

 

And lastly the full compliment roller used on the pinion end of the second shaft (N12135) £36.38. (pug part # 2317 66, £54.70)

 

 

I might just give the £100 kit on ebay a go, or see how much discount pug will give, their kit is about £130 +vat on SB.

 

New toys arrived yesterday;

 

 

So got the remaining bearings pulled off, and stripped the diff down as well.

 

[welshpug 1,661]

Buggrit, order placed with Fast track bearings on ebay £106 delivered, if they were good enough for NIck's SB engined 106 I'm sure they'll be fine on my 8 valve XU!.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

I've delt with Brammer a few times.

Tell them your cheapest price you've been quoted, minus a couple of quid and they will match it.

I used to work for a conveyor company and buy bearings by the 100s from them.

The prices they quote isn't anywhere what they can afford to make a profit from.

 

BTW check out my progress!

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=139692&st=40

[welshpug 1,661]

well if they wanted to match the best price I could do, which would be to buy the one bearing from Peugeot for £50, leaving them to try and knock £110 of bearings down to £50, don't think so somehow

[welshpug 1,661]

My new bearings arrived on Friday, with the three seals as well.

 

 

Part number is different on this bearing, slight differences in how its put together, but all important dimensions are identical

 

 

Remembered I had a synchro on a pinion shaft Pugtop had given me, so went about extracting the clip on it, which is just a case of pushing it around and feeding it up over the pins that hold the two rings together.

 

 

 

Then reverse the procedure to fit it, a little more tricky due to the shape, and you have to be very careful in clamping it as its fairly soft, but very sharp so mind your fingers/hands.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats better!!

 

 

Now its just a case of making sure the bits are clean from any crud and fitting it all back together

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

There was 4 seals on my BE1, selector shaft, Input bearing seal, & 2 driveshaft seals.

There's also a tiny seal in the plastic speedo cable collar.

[welshpug 1,661]

Lots more progress today, had been trying to find something to press/drift the input shaft bearings on a little further, found that some 1"1/8th bike steerer tube is just about right, and a crown race setting tool works for the output shaft outer bearing.

 

Pinion end bearing and clip fitted, dropping needle roller bearing down onto it.

 

 

First gear

 

 

1st/2nd synchro and reverse gear, make sure it goes the right way round, BE3 goes the other way I think.

 

 

2nd gear and its bush.

 

 

Slide on 3rd/4th gear and drop the bearing on top, and drift on with borrowed crownrace setting tool!