205 Gti6 Front Springs

[djvu205 1]

i recently refurbished the suspension in my 92 model gti, there are a couple of things which now bug me with the setup. i have searched the forum and found some info but cant find or make sense of it all and cant find what im after

 

its fitted with eibach springs which im told were the 7001-120 i purchased them secondhand so i really dont know what they are other than they are stamped EW7001001VA and have dropped the front about 35mm. the eibachs are mated with new bilstein b4's i got from Kam Racing.

 

Rear beam as been rebuilt and is set at 315mm centre to centre and has geniune gti6 dampers fitted. all parts other parts where replace with new items eg bushes ball joints drop links etc, its all std other than being lowered and in good working.

 

it currently has a rebuilt 1.9 8v fitted and a close ratio box with quaife. the car drives great except when i hit any bumps in the road it bump steers a little and makes a small thump. other than that im very happy with it but concerned about the front ride height being too low for the b4 struts. when looking under the front of the car and its sitting on the ground, the springs seem to be very compressed, as you might expect, however the two top and bottom coils are almost bound already, the two centre coils have about a 35mm gap between them and then probley another 10mm gap each side before the top and bottom bound coils, so around 55mm total gap beforeall the coils bind? hope that makes sense

 

i plan to fit a xu10 into it in the next few months and would like to change the springs during/before i put the motor in. can anyone comment on this or had similar experiences and help me out with a better set of coils to suit the b4 struts. at the same time they will need to handle the gti6 lump also. keeping in mind that im in Aus so 309 springs are non existant here. maybe the eibachs i have are the wrong ones?

[shalmaneser 26]

I've got 309 springs and they're very nice! cheap too, maybe worth getting some sent over?

 

Xsara VTS springs have been suggested, although never tried as far as I know....

[djvu205 1]

i have read that VTS springs can be used and i could probley get some here in oz, however in the thread i was reading on here there where some conflicting comments? some say they sit just as high as using the std gti6 springs. im also trying to establish what rate the std 205 springs are? again there doesnt seem to be one definate answer. i guess i could have mine tested. just want to know if its worth putting them back in with the xu10 and ressetting them a tad lower or will they be too soft. in one thread i read its claimed they are only around the 90lb mark? others claim alot higher

 

based on what i have read 170lb - 185lb springs might work out ok for me with std arb and torsion bars on the rear and an xu10 fitted, but i still want it to sit 25mm lower than std as well, so do i need to have custom springs made up or is there an off the shelf item i could try? i noticed peter lloyd website has popped up in a few searches but again no definate specs or proven results. it would be great if i could afford to try a few different types and brands but when importing items that dont work out, it becomes a very expensive process, so any feedback appreciated.

 

the other thing that is on my mind is the eibach spring i currently have fitted. reading through info its claimed that they lower a 205 anything from nothing at all to 30mm lower? has anyone seen the stamping on the spring like the following? EW7001001VA

Edited June 12, 2012 by djvu205

[djvu205 1]

From what i can work out EW7001001VA is the stamping for a 106 mk1 spring? But there seems to be a couple different mk1's. So i could have either part no E7003-120 or E7001-120. I have had another measure and its sitting closer to the 40mm side of std figures.

 

Either way i would still like to lift the front as my lower control arms are past horizontal in the bad direction and thats with the 8v. When the xu10 goes in it may be worse?

 

Does anyone know if there anything in the eibach range that will drop the front 20 -25mm from std.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2012 by djvu205

[camgti 56]

Gday!

 

A mate has this setup you have although with 21mm bars at the rear. He has a XU10 Fitted too. His wishbones are also past horizontal and he also wants to know if there are some similar springs to what your after to bring the height up a little. I personally dont like how the car handles at all in its current state. He has a GTi6 fitted, and its goes like stink but has very similar symptoms to what your talking about. I find the steering a little numb and it does bump steer too, has lost lots of the adjustability heading into a corner. I think its a matter of ( as your suggesting ) fitting springs that have a higher height setting to bring the roll center back up to match the balance of the spring rates front to rear. Unfortunately I dont think Eibach has anything. FWIW, they are also to stiff for standard rear bars your running IMO, the front will understeer more. Standard springs reset to your desired height are probably your best bet before going to something more expensive IE good coilovers when you fit the XU10.

 

Im running a 309 rear beam and about to upgrade to 21.3mm bars and 24mm arb and am only adding stiffer springs to the front once the bars go in. Standard height ( although I like the look of it lowered ) is the way to go. Most responsive, best turn in, more grip and more predictable.

 

Cam

[djvu205 1]

Hi Cam i decided that i will put std springs back in for now. I would like to try some xsara 16v springs if i can find some cheap enough. Even if i have to have them reset they should be a bit firmer to std 205 springs but not to firm.

[camgti 56]

I know a set for sale if your interested. There is a guy on the AF forum parting out a VTS in Canberra. He would be keen to sell the springs for sure

 

Cam

[Spiky 37]

on mine,

 

i run 300lbs springs

309 front arb

309 beam 24mm arb

309 beam stand TB

 

handles pretty well like that, did understeer before i fitted the 24mm arb

[djvu205 1]

im thinking i will run xsara springs which by my working out are slightly firmer than std 205 springs and maybe slightly lower if im lucky?

i have done a little research just need to get hold of some springs and try them if they sit to high i can reset them to desired height within reason.

 

found some usefull info here.

 

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=100508

 

after alot of searching and mucking around with a few spring calculators i came up with the following

 

std 205 gti

 

free length 330mm

dia 155mm

wire dia 12.7mm

no of coils 5.5 (active coils 4)

 

 

std vts xsara mk2

 

free length 320mm

dia 155mm

wire dia 13.2mm

no of coils 5.5 (active coils 4)

 

 

depending on how many coils you use in the calculation the results i got where as follows. the only real factor that changes the rate between the two is the wire dia as they are physically pretty much the same.

 

205 gti - 5.5 coils 90 lb/in

205 gti - 4 coils 123 lb/in

 

xsara vts mk2 - 5.5 coils 106 lb/in

xsara vts mk2 - 5.5 coils 147 lb/in

 

regardless of the number of coils used to calculate the above rates it seemed that vts springs are approx 18 - 19% firmer than std 205 springs and dimensionally very close. im hoping that coulped with some group a rear beam mounts and possibly a 22mm ARB that the car should be still nice enough on the road but also handle the extra weight of the xu10 up front and not develop any understeer. anyway its all a big learning curve for me and i need to start with some thing so thats the plan im going with for now.

[Anthony 1,003]

I would expect a standard Xsara VTS spring to sit too high on a 205 GTi-6.

 

Tesstuff on here briefly ran them on his 205 V6 and was apparently a bit high on that, and the V6 engine and ML 'box combo weighs more than a GTi-6 and BE combo.

 

A set of Xsara lowering springs (or some lowering springs with a fair drop for a 306) would probably work though, and certainly I've got a set in the garage that I'm going to try when I finally get around to fitting the engine. A few years ago I did try a set of 306 lowering springs on my 205 8v and whilst it rode/drove fine, it was sat far too high.

 

The other thing that might work are the Eibach 7004 springs that were getting mis-supplied in place of 7001's a few years back. They were I believe intended for diesel models and made GTi's with alloy block engines sit around standard height so they'd probably be about right with a heavier engine if you wanted only a slight drop.

[djvu205 1]

thanks for the heads up Anthony, all my ramblings are based on stuff i have accumulated online and im yet to head down to the local wrecking yard to measure some stuff up first hand. seems strange if the figures i came up with above are correct that the vts springs would sit high? i was sure i was on to a good thing there.

 

im thinking that if i can find something that will even sit close to std, that i will reset them 20mm lower. i did send a email to kam racing re alternative eibach springs, but have not heard back as yet. thanks again and i will be wary of forking out big dollars if i try the vts springs.

[welshpug 1,657]

I was told the phase1 xsara/zx16v had 140 lb springs but are shorter than the phase2 and the 306 springs.

[Willem_Jacobs 6 1 Cars]

Hi there,

 

not meaning to hijack this topic, but better posting the question here, since it's basicly the same car using the same engine....

 

I'm the proud owner of a white XU10J4 engined (yep, that's the heavyweight of a S16 engine) convertible 205.... I've been running it on some good and new bought stock dampers (at the front) since it still is a road-car for about 1 year on Apex 35mm lowered springs...

 

However the top 2 coils are bound permanently and i've suffered damage on my topmount-bearings when i went flying on nurburgring on my last visit...

 

so 2 problems:
1: the springs can get loose when lifted...

2: it is a tad too low in front (does look good, but really isnt since the wishbones sit horizontal (static)

 

I really don't want to go fully adjustable,nor harder on the damping, but just want to get a longer spring with pretty much the same rideheigth (better would be up to 20mm higher) but i dont want the springs to sit loose in the dampers when lifted off the ground....

 

i've been comparing car weights to mine (weighs 980 kg now, a lot more than a stock 205 gti) and found out that most 206's are pretty close....

Total damper travel of 206's seems to be about the same as 205's (measured static, with the car level, and free with the subframe on jacks)

The springs of 206's seem to be similar in lots of ways to the 205 ones... however the choise (looking at eibach-pro kit now) for 205 items is limited...

206's seem to give me much more items to choose from....

 

What do you guys think? Has it been done before?

 

options?:
206 2.0 S16 - 25mm (might be to heavy of a car, and send the 205 up too far) > E7025-120

206 1.6 - 30mm ('schould be' around the same weight as my 205) > E7024-120

206 1.1 / 1.4 -30mm (a little less weighty than the 205) > E7023-120

 

205 ones would be -30mm > E7001-120

 

oh, and i forgot to mention, its now on APEX 70-10101-VA-100/98 (-30 mm APEX spring designed to go on 205 GTi models)

[welshpug 1,657]

the EW10 engine wont weigh the nose of a 206 down any more at all than the TU5JP4, what you need to look at is the axle weights.

[Willem_Jacobs 6 1 Cars]

yeah, i know, there is however little or no information on that to be found online (or i'm just not using the right search methods / terms)

 

but, am i correct in thinking the 206 springs can be used on 205 struts and topmounts?

Edited January 5, 2014 by Willem_Jacobs

[2052006 10]

Have you seen this thread?

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=102647

 

Those 206 Eibachs that you refer to (E7025-120) apparently lower a gti6'd 205 approx 15mm.

 

Another potential option are the S2 106 Eibach Pro-Kit (E7016-120). The S1 106 uses the same Eibach spring as the 205. However, the S2 106 was slightly heavier, so uses a slightly different spring to account for this, I presume. Therefore, might be ideal for the increased weight on the front end of a gti6 205?? If you look at the axle weights in the Eibach catalogue, the S2 is slightly more than the S1.

 

This is pure speculation on my behalf though. I've not tried it yet and I can't find anyone who has in old threads...

[Willem_Jacobs 6 1 Cars]

I've seen it, but seem to have skipped a few important words reading it...

 

Glad to have someone telling me it will fit the dampers...

 

If the E7025 lowered it by 15 mm (rated at 25 mm for the 206) and i'm really after +- 35 mm (sits much lower on the apex-35mm springs, more like 50mm now, as the wheels almost disapear behind the bodytrim) i'm really after a bit more of a drop...

 

I have now ordered a set of E7024-120 (will lower a 206 1.6 valver 30mm) and they will be ready for collecting this week...

 

I'll post a picture and some info on the feel once i have them fitted!

Edited January 6, 2014 by Willem_Jacobs

[2052006 10]

Yes, I'd be very interested in the results.

 

Both the E7025 and E7024 are rated as 890 front axle load. I'm wondering whether the fact that the 7024 lowers a 206 by 30mm, as opposed to only 25mm for the 7025, is due to the fact the 1.6 may start off higher to begin with (as opposed to the S16). Therefore, will the 7024 lower a 205 any more than the 7025?

 

Hence why I'm inclined to go with the ones from an S2 106 - rated at 785 axle load. The 205 and 106 S1 pro-kit are rated at 640 axle load.

Edited January 6, 2014 by 2052006

[Willem_Jacobs 6 1 Cars]

It's the heavyweight of an phase 1 306 S16 engine i have fitted... supposedly little more of a heavyweight than the later gti-6 engine (XU10J4 RFY, not the later type RFS wich has a smaller intake mani... )

 

I think i'll need the 890 kgs, the little thing weighs about the same as the 206 these sprins are meant for... The phase 2 106's seem to weigh a little less...

( these axle loads are max. load figures, not the static load... rigth? )

[2052006 10]

I'm not sure re axle loads. I'm hoping someone with more knowledge of suspension (rather than simply guessing, like me!) may like to comment!?

[Willem_Jacobs 6 1 Cars]

Yes, I'd be very interested in the results.

 

Both the E7025 and E7024 are rated as 890 front axle load. I'm wondering whether the fact that the 7024 lowers a 206 by 30mm, as opposed to only 25mm for the 7025, is due to the fact the 1.6 may start off higher to begin with (as opposed to the S16). Therefore, will the 7024 lower a 205 any more than the 7025?

 

Hence why I'm inclined to go with the ones from an S2 106 - rated at 785 axle load. The 205 and 106 S1 pro-kit are rated at 640 axle load.

 

And the results are in....

 

It's been a while that i've actually seen a 205 gti on standard springs (no way of knowing what heigth it once started it's life on, so i've been comparing it to my winter-205 and the factory-original 205 roland-garros convertible sitting in the garage...

 

But i'm pleased to report the eibach springs did the job i had intended for them... Sitting at just the right height, providing plenty of preload on the struts and keeping the 'little stiffer than stock' feel to the whole...

It's been a massive improvement over the Apex -30mm springs i had fitted before:

 

some pics:

 

 

 

 

(apex centre)

 

next to the winter -05

 

next to the roland garros convertible

 

 

So, Eibach 7024-120 seems to be a great option running stock struts!

[allye 530 3 Cars]

All these good looking CTI's around at the moment! I used to think they looked gash, looks great though, must surprise even more poeple in this guise than a normal 205.

[Willem_Jacobs 6 1 Cars]

I dont get the last part of that Ali, but thanks!

(not used to the 'spoken' english / 'merican / aussie language ​ )

 

She does look just fine!... needs a good cleaning though!
and that's the price to pay for owning a drop-top 205... gets dirty way too easy, gets rusty due to the french-italian combo in welding / converting (conversion was done 'post-zincbath corrosive treatment afaik)

 

I've been to the nurburgring a few times now, priceless to overtake bmw E30's (325) on the trip going there, with the top down

 

Back on topic now!

[Wod 0]

 

And the results are in....

 

It's been a while that i've actually seen a 205 gti on standard springs (no way of knowing what heigth it once started it's life on, so i've been comparing it to my winter-205 and the factory-original 205 roland-garros convertible sitting in the garage...

 

But i'm pleased to report the eibach springs did the job i had intended for them... Sitting at just the right height, providing plenty of preload on the struts and keeping the 'little stiffer than stock' feel to the whole...

It's been a massive improvement over the Apex -30mm springs i had fitted before:

 

some pics:

 

 

 

 

(apex centre)

 

next to the winter -05

 

next to the roland garros convertible

 

 

So, Eibach 7024-120 seems to be a great option running stock struts!

Hi mate. What lump was you running with these springs? Got the xu10 in mine and the springs are far too soft! Im on a budget so any help appreciated

Thanks

Wod