Ignition Loom Differences Between Phases

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Is it possible that the imoboliser cuts the signal to the fuel pump relay to stop that so you wouldn't get a click?

 

If you have a spark then all you have to sort is the petrol getting there?

 

Yeah. If I can get a spark I suppose it's just a case of getting the fuel to it. Then I would be relying on the immobilisor just blocking the fuel issue. If it also blocks the injectors and spark, then I am going to call it a day. Would probably be quicker to take the engine out and put it in mine.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I found a picture on my phone which may speak a thousand words.

 

 

This looks like it could be the relay for the fuel pump.

[Anthony 1,003]

It is, or atleast that is the fuel pump wiring that it is joined into.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Ok, I will follow that later on and see where the white one goes to

[Weser 30]

Wont joining the yellow wire and the black wire bypass whatever that relay is doing? Where does that black wire head off to.

[Anthony 1,003]

Above all and everything else, go back a step and check the basics - namely whether you have a spark.

 

There is no point hard wiring the fuel pump or bypassing the fuel pump relay when it is far from clear at this point whether they are even the problem - after all, the fuel pump relay is controlled by the ECU. You're seemingly fixated on the fuel pump not priming, when there is a strong likelihood that this is a symptom of a larger issue, and not the underlying cause.

 

And Dan, seriously, go and buy a multimeter - doesn't have to be an expensive one as a typical £15 one will have all the functionality that you're likely to need when diagnosing automotive faults, and even if you're not electrically minded, you will very quickly be able to identify / narrow down issues such as this.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

2 wires - A wire from each relay goes to the black conduit. I am not sure at the moment where it goes. I also found this picture, which shows 1 wire from each relay going to an earth point. The main ECU plug is shown in the middle with heathshrink going to the end.

 

 

 

There is a chance these 2 covered in conduit going to the relays could be immobiliser related.

 

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Above all and everything else, go back a step and check the basics - namely whether you have a spark.

 

There is no point hard wiring the fuel pump or bypassing the fuel pump relay when it is far from clear at this point whether they are even the problem - after all, the fuel pump relay is controlled by the ECU. You're seemingly fixated on the fuel pump not priming, when there is a strong likelihood that this is a symptom of a larger issue, and not the underlying cause.

 

And Dan, seriously, go and buy a multimeter - doesn't have to be an expensive one as a typical £15 one will have all the functionality that you're likely to need when diagnosing automotive faults, and even if you're not electrically minded, you will very quickly be able to identify / narrow down issues such as this.

 

Some fair points, Thanks. I suppose I was just trying to find the quickest way to get the car started. I will see if I can get a spark and go from there. I'l get as many pics as I can of those relays and where they meet.

 

I have some crank sensors I can try out incase it is that.

 

I'l take your advice and invest in a multimeter. But be warned I will be coming back with numbers and results which mean nothing to me

[welshpug 1,657]

all you need to know with the multimeter is whether you have power or not.

 

the wires in the conduit look like the permanent lives to the relays.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Yes, I think actually it could be the wire going to the shunt box.

 

 

(that has since been replaced with mine to test it)

[rallysteve 22]

earth return from the pump i doubt will have been cut into. you just need to provide power to it via the (white?) wire. If you find the loom which connects around the fuse box to the rear lights etc then you will find the pump wire.

 

Steve

[CaptainK 11]

Dan, just as a quick reminder - you might have to give it a fair amount of of throttle and a bit of turning over time to get it started. When it was daily driven it started pretty much instantly on the button with a faint touch of throttle, but if it had been sat for a long while then it'd need some extra time to get it started.

 

The immobiliser in question is just an immobiliser, it has no alarm. When it was active then it would stop the starter motor from working too and you'd get nothing when you turned the key to "engine start" position. I can't quite remember, but I think the fuel pump primed on "second stage" of the key turn (i.e. just before "engine start") irrespective of whether you disabled the immobiliser or not.

 

I can't believe all this hassle for you mate, all because some blimmin storage company lost the keys ! I'd owned the car for 11 years and in that time I'd never lost or misplaced my keys.

[Weser 30]

2 wires - A wire from each relay goes to the black conduit. I am not sure at the moment where it goes. I also found this picture, which shows 1 wire from each relay going to an earth point. The main ECU plug is shown in the middle with heathshrink going to the end.

 

There is a chance these 2 covered in conduit going to the relays could be immobiliser related.

 

Definitely get yourself a multi meter dead easy to use and like already said all you need to know is if you have power there or not. Get one with a continuity test as that is very useful. I also find an electrical probe is a useful bit of kit. You can clip it onto a battery and it will let you supply an earth or a live.

 

Make sure you have a spark. That will rule out anything else and is nice and easy to check.

 

However if it is a fueling problem here is what I think I can tell. It looks like those wires in the conduit go to the shunt box. My memory of the shunt box is not great to be honest but it looks like that Big Ass yellow wire supplies a live to the shunt box which in turn puts a live down both of those black cables in the conduit probably through a fuse. Someone else may be able to confirm if this is true or not. Then clearly these lives are switched by the relays you are showing. Those relays I take it are not standard? (they dont look like it to me) If they are not standard my next step would be to get them out of there. Basically you need to join the wire that goes onto pin30 on the relay with the wire that goes onto pin 87 on the relay. In the case of the relay in the fore ground of your photo join the yellow wire in your hand with the black one that comes from the conduit.

 

This is my personal opinion though.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Ordered a multimeter and will collect it on the way home. Went for one with continuity. It has temperature probes. I'm sure I can find a use for those one day.

 

Any advice for a noob? I have had a look at some guides online and I learnt how to check for current. I'l need to select 20V for automotive use obviously.

 

If I earth the black probe and poke various positions in that relay area I will see where is getting power in theory.

 

How do I go about using one to find 'loops'? If I find a contact, and want to see where that power is ending up, what do I need to set it to in order to get a result when I complete the circuit from various prodding?

[welshpug 1,657]

stick it on the continuity check function, most will beep

[Weser 30]

Make sure your red lead is in the voltage plug if your meter has 2 places to plug your red probe in.

Like you say you want it set on 20V and earth the black probe and poke around with the red.

 

When you use the continuity, it is advisable you have no power going throught the wires you are testing as your meter will act as a wire and you can short stuff out or blow your meter.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Ive got a spark.

 

I've stuck the multimeter in the top right fusebox plug and it shoots to 12v on the 3rd ignition click, then drops to zero after a second. Does this suggest anything obvious?

 

[Weser 30]

Which wire on the connector?

 

Could suggest priming for the pump?

Edited June 7, 2012 by Weser

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Have poked the multimeter in the fuel pump wiring plug and with the ignition turned it goes to 0.06 then a relay clicks and it goes down to 0.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Which wire on the connector?

 

Could suggest priming for the pump?

 

That top right connector is for the fuel pump. The white goes to the back of the car and the yellow goes to a relay and to the DTA.

[Weser 30]

Can you tell what relay is clicking. What voltage have you got on the black wire in the conduit that goes to the relay and the yellow wire that goes to the the relay. With the ignition off and turned on.

 

Just had a re read. So it sounds like you have power on the fuse board but not at the pump. You could use your continuity check to make sure the wires bleep through. I think the pump primes then only runs when the starter is turned so maybe see what voltages you get when cranking.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Weser

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

The relay that clicks is the second green from the right of the fuse box. I've just cranked it over with the multimeter in the white wired fuse box plug an it goes to 12v, so there is power coming from there, but it doesn't make it back to the fuel pump

[Weser 30]

Ahh so that's your problem. If you have some spare wire you could run that instead I the original loom.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

The shunt box feed to the 2 relays displays a constant 12v live. I think there must be an issue with the fuel pump wire near the back

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Ahh so that's your problem. If you have some spare wire you could run that instead I the original loom.

 

Think it's a break in the loom? I will run a long wire to the fuel pump then. I will check the earths too. I like this multimeter malarkey!