Ignition Loom Differences Between Phases

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I am wanting to start a car which has no key.

 

It has a fairly substantional amount of immobiliser wiring in the ignition loom, but from a quick look in the glovebox, there doesn't appear to be anything tapped into that end. I'm hoping it is purely a case of the immobiliser box and lots of wires going back and forth just in that small section of loom itself.

 

Now, I can take my ignition barrell out and the loom and try and swap that over, but from looking at it the colours are differnt for a start.

 

Here are the pics of my ph1.5 loom and plugs:

 

 

I have mainly whites, an orange and a red coming from the ignition loom.

 

Here is the ph2 one:

 

 

 

There are fewer wires going in to the main loom.

 

Is that how a ph2 loom is, or has something else been changed?

 

[welshpug 1,657]

plugs are the same, just swap the barrel over, looks like the loom on the car has been messed with.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Well at least now that's confirmed im not going to waste time removing mine and I'l know from swapping it over that if it doesnt make a difference then there are deeper problems.

 

I'm tempted to remove the dash so I can see the whole loom. Probably the best way to be able to assess it all

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Plug directly into the fuse box, it's only a linking loom

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

If that is simply the case, that would be great and obviously eliminate the whole modified section. So it really is just a case of plugging in my barrell and loom straight into the glovebox and starting it from there with the key? I'm shocked it's that simple

Edited May 1, 2012 by chipstick

[welshpug 1,657]

try it!

[CaptainK 11]

plugs are the same, just swap the barrel over, looks like the loom on the car has been messed with.

On the joys of a certain ex member's bodging of this car and its loom......

 

Good luck getting it started Dan.

[welshpug 1,657]

On the joys of a certain ex member's bodging of this car and its loom......

 

Good luck getting it started Dan.

 

DOH! can't think who though

[Anthony 1,003]

To be fair, hacking around of the ignition barrel wiring is normally the evil work of alarm installers.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I started to remove the dash and fusebox wise there is no sign of any connections interfered with from any alarm and immobilisors over the years, so I think I can safely say the bodge has been restricted to the ignition barrel loom only.

 

When I get the dash top out I will chase all the wiring and hopefully confirm this is the case.

 

I had a look at the back of the fusebox to see where this linking loom attaches, and saw nothing obvious plug wise, so rather than pulling things out and forgetting where they go I will wait until the dash top is off so I can chase it back to it.

 

Hopefully then I can use my barrel direct into this as Miles advises and get it started.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Dash is out and I've had a nosey.

 

I think I spot the 2 plugs in the glovebox which I need.

 

First one:

 

 

Which looks to be the other end of this:

 

 

And then this one (screwdriver isn't that clear):

 

 

Which appears to be the end of:

 

 

Am I barking up the correct tree?

Edited May 10, 2012 by chipstick

[welshpug 1,657]

do the wire numbers and socket match the wiring diagrams?

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I didn't even give wiring diagrams a thought.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

It looks right but I've posted a fusebox diagram before here & the ignition barrel wires go to plugs sockets MR (four wire) & BA (three wire).

 

You look to have found the right plugs imo.

 

g

[CaptainK 11]

Looking good Dan, hopefully you'll get it started soon enough . Let us know how you get on with it.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

I have managed to get over the shunt box issue and after connecting an ignition barrel directly into the fuse box I can make it turn over but not start.

 

I can't hear the fuel pump prime so I'm thinking immobiliser issue - yet I've bypassed that by using the glovebox starting plugs. I can see anything obvious tapped into anywhere else. Fuel pump fuse is fine also. (205 gti6). It's on DTA management so there's no fuel relay like a 306 loom has.

 

Any ideas?

[rallysteve 22]

what type of alarm is it? i likely has two immobiliser loops in which case one loop isolates the starter solenoid and the other the fuel pump. Look at the thickish white wires around the fusebox i seem to remember those going to the fuel pump. you can then tell if it has been hacked into.

 

Steve

 

Infact I think it is the top right plug on the board that does the fuel pump from memory.

 

Steve

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

No idea Steve. It's a 90s one installed absolutely awfully. The solder and insulation tape is laughable. It's keeping me out though.

 

That top yellow plug is tapped into - goes to the DTA loom I think. I will have a look. Not sure where I would reconnect it to though.

[Weser 30]

Can you not just power the fuel pump directly to with a live feed possibly with a switch and then when its running turn the engine over?

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Can you not just power the fuel pump directly to with a live feed possibly with a switch and then when its running turn the engine over?

 

Thats what I'm hoping to try. I can't see it would cause any issues. There are 2 wires going to the pump IIRC, so if I add a live an earth to those I should be able to get the pump to work. Then turn it over and hopefully it should run.

 

Having a return I can't see it would bring up any flooding issues?

[Weser 30]

I think you will be fine. I did the same sort of thing to by pass my fuel pump relay when it was knackered. Used an ignition live in the fuse box to power the pump as well so it just constantly ran when the ignition was on. Had it like that for months unitl I got round to sorting the relay

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

_{Providing it works for a couple of minutes that will do me.}

 

_{Do you remember which contact at the pump you wired into? I don't possess a multimeter (or know how to use one)}

 

_{I can just earth it to a point under the rear seat can't I?}

 

_{I really need to learn about electrics. Have always been scared off by them.}

[Anthony 1,003]

Chances are that the exising earth will be fine (earths to point behind NSR light) so you should just need a live.

 

However, are you sure that there's not something else more fundementally wrong? Do you hear the fuel pump relay click to suggest that the DTA is trying to prime the pump, and have you checked for spark when cranking to suggest that the DTA is actually powered up, working and seeing a signal from the crank sensor?

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Quite possibly Anthony. I don't hear anything click when the ignition is turned.

 

I am starting to think the immobilisor issue is deeper than just to the ignition lead and all the poor connections there on that side alone.

 

I notice Sandy has tapped into a couple of things in the fuse box - I now remember Kieran saying that Sandy had to do something to work around the immobilisor.

 

In one of the pictures I posted you can see the top right yellow plug. This white wire has been tapped into. I am guessing that is where the problem is (or one of them).

 

Being a noob to electrics I don't really know how to work around it. When I removed the 80's immobilisor from mine, it was a case of remove the bridged connections and join the colours back together

 

RE a spark, I will check for one. Having the leads instead of original coilpacks, can I just remove a spark plug and turn it over and look for a spark? Again this is something I haven't had to ever do before so forgive my ignorance. Modern cars FTW

[Weser 30]

_{Providing it works for a couple of minutes that will do me.}

 

_{Do you remember which contact at the pump you wired into? I don't possess a multimeter (or know how to use one)}

 

_{I can just earth it to a point under the rear seat can't I?}

 

_{I really need to learn about electrics. Have always been scared off by them.}

 

As said I did it through the fuse box as I didnt have any imoboliser issues. You will have to do it at the pump. But as Anthony says the earth should now be ok. If it earths behind the light you should beable to find that easily and the the other connector should be live.

 

Is it possible that the imoboliser cuts the signal to the fuel pump relay to stop that so you wouldn't get a click?

 

If you have a spark then all you have to sort is the petrol getting there?