Pug Sport Rear Dampers

[Wurzel 16]

Thinking of getting some new dampers on the car as it's the only thing I haven't replaced on the running gear since I bought the car, and am considering the tarmac spec versions.

 

Does anyone have these on their car at the moment?? Just wanted some feed back really. They are Bilstein items but am interested to know if they are comparable to other maybe cheaper Bilstein units.

 

Hopefully it will improve the rather vague rear end handling I'm experiencing at the moment. The old left hander/right hander flick at speed really unsettles the car no matter how smoothly you try and drive it.

 

Any opinions welcome

[Adi 0]

am considering the tarmac spec versions

 

Don't have experience of the tarmac spec dampers on the 205......but on similar weighted cars.....the Pugsport tarmac spec dampers have been far too firm for normal road use.

 

If any Pugsport dampers were to be used for the road......I would suggest the gravel spec at best.

 

Though IMO....I would suggest either the Bilstein Sprint/Sport dampers as I'm pretty sure the Pugsport dampers are only "ordinary" linear dampers rather than the newer style "digressive" dampers. The Sprint/Sport would be far better for the road as.....they deal with bumps and other high shaft speed movements a lot better than the linear dampers.

[fiji bob 0]

adi do you know if the standard spec bilsteins are digressive type dampers? im considering changing the dampers for the sport versions as the back end feels a bit soft although it is at the standardish ride height still which cant be helping much but if it feels soft now im worried it might bottom out once lowered

[Adi 0]

do you know if the standard spec bilsteins are digressive type dampers

 

Yes the Sport/Sprint use digressive damping.

 

the back end feels a bit soft although it is at the standardish ride height still which cant be helping much but if it feels soft now im worried it might bottom out once lowered

 

I have a 206 which has the same set up at the rear as the 205. I have only lowered the rear 25mm but uprated the rear torsion bars 50% and used the Sport dampers.

The dampers are great and work really well. You shouldn't use the damper to reduce travel though. If you are worried the rear may bottom out when lowered, UPRATE THE TORSION BARS. The spring (torsion) should control the amount of suspension travel and not the damper.

 

If you are going to use the Sport dampers at the rear......you should really use the Sport dampers on the front as well. The fronts tend to be a bit softer so to accentuate the higher rear rate and help turn etc.

[Wurzel 16]

I had a look at the Bilstein Sport dampers. The price for the fronts though seems quite high (£180 ish each). However, if they do improve the handling significantly, I can warrant spending the cash.

 

On an other wise standard set up (rear torsion bars/front springs) with maybe an uprated ARB, how would this be??

 

I know it is an awkward question to answer. What I'm getting at is, do the dampers work on standard cars or better with other suspension mods (similar to the old camshaft question).

[Adi 0]

I had a look at the Bilstein Sport dampers. The price for the fronts though seems quite high (£180 ish each)

 

The Sports on my 206 are exactly the same fitting as the 205.....and the fronts were £164 each from Eurocar Parts.....who hold the UK license for Bilstein.

 

But you will be better getting a quote from www.motorsportworld.co.uk as they offer 15% discount on ECP prices. I paid £134 each for the fronts.

 

On an other wise standard set up (rear torsion bars/front springs) with maybe an uprated ARB, how would this be??

 

Great!! The Sports were actually designed to work along with the std springs. But exactly the same valving is used on the Sprints.......the only difference being the short stroke on the Sprints for the shorter higher rate spring.

 

What I'm getting at is, do the dampers work on standard cars or better with other suspension mods

 

Either....to a certain extent. The way the digressive valving works on the Sport/Sprints........the spring rate can be increased to a certain extent.....and the dampers are designed to still work well.

[205man 0]

ive took them grp n tarmac shocks of mine they were just to hard/uncomfortable for everyday use, great trackday kit (thats what im going to use them for) but not general road use

 

alan

[fiji bob 0]

ive got eibach springs on mine so id need shorter stroke shocks, the sprint shocks arent available seperately are they?

[Wurzel 16]

Cheers for that Adi.

 

The Sports were actually designed to work along with the std springs. But exactly the same valving is used on the Sprints.......the only difference being the short stroke on the Sprints for the shorter higher rate spring.

 

Just to clear things up for me then. The Bilstein SPORT dampers have the same valving as the SPRINTLINE shock.

 

The SPORT dampers use a shorter stroke and are therefore better suited to 40mm lowered standard rate springs for instance.

 

Have I got that correct?

 

If I have, then I guess that value for money would say go for the Sprintline shocks as the valving is identical, OR, do the SPORT shocks have an advantage over handling?

 

Would the Sprintline shocks cope with 40mm lowered springs (should do if the standard shocks can)?

 

Last point, On www.tuning.co.uk, they list Bilstein Yellow dampers. The fronts being around £167 inc VAT. Are these the SPORT dampers I have seen listed elsewhere??

 

Thanks for the help, I hate (as I'm sure do most) spending cash on something unknown so any feedback is welcome. It's a shame you can't fit this stuff and try it out for a week and then give it back if you don't like it.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

I think its the Sprints that have a short stroke.

 

the only difference being the short stroke on the Sprints for the shorter higher rate spring

Edited October 11, 2003 by Me_Z205

[Wurzel 16]

Hmm. Just read a similar thread and think I may have got things a little mixed up.

 

So far I think this is the way it works:

 

Streetline

Sprintline

PSS

PSS9

 

The streetline being bottom of the pile from the ones I have mentioned here.

 

The Sport dampers I, and I hope Adi, have been going on about should fit in after the Sprintline shock (PSS and PSS9 being in a different league as they are coil overs).

 

Adi, the shocks you got from Motorsportworld, were they the B46-1039(rear) and V36-0545/6(fronts)?? Would you say these are amongst the 'best' shocks you can get for the 205 given the price??

[Adi 0]

The Sprint does have the short stroke for springs at -40mm or shorter..but remember any -40mm spring will be a higher rate for the shorter length.

 

The Sport dampers are best used with springs at -25 or -30mm lowered. If -30mm springs are used with the short stroke SPRINT dampers....the spring wil be trapped and won't let the car sit at the proper height.

 

But the Sprint, Sport and PSS dampers all have the same valving. The damping rate will be the same on all these dampers.

 

Yes the PSS will have the coilover attached......but that won't change the damping rate.

 

The Sport dampers don't really get mentioned as they don't come in a kit with the springs. But as already mentioned....they have the same damping rate as the Sprints, so go alongside the Sprints in the range.

 

Adi, the shocks you got from Motorsportworld, were they the B46-1039(rear) and V36-0545/6(fronts)?? Would you say these are amongst the 'best' shocks you can get for the 205 given the price??

 

The Sport dampers I got were for the 206 and not the 205. So even though the fitment is exactly the same on both cars.....the damping valving will be different to correspond with the extra weight of the 206.

 

The Bilstein SPORT/SPRINT dampers are the best you can get for the money IMO. The valving used in the Bilsteins is far superior to that in the Koni Sports.

[Guest Hallsy]

So are the sprint shocks available separately? I know that the Sport ones are. Is there any difference in price between the two as the sport ones are pretty expensive!

 

I agree with the comment on Koni shocks, i have them on the rear of mine and after a year or so of use the adjusters had seized up which caused problems with adjusting the shocks, resulting in them seizing up and needing persuasion from a hydraulic press!! I will not be buying anymore!

[Adi 0]

So are the sprint shocks available separately? I know that the Sport ones are. Is there any difference in price between the two as the sport ones are pretty expensive

 

I'm 99% sure you can purchase the Sprints separately. I bought the Sport dampers and bought just the rears first.

 

Just to check.......the Sprints are only needed for 40mm or more lowering. Any less than 40mm.....and the Sports should be used.

 

The Sports were about £80-£85 each for the rears........and I know the full Sprintline kit is a very similar price to the Sports for just the 4 dampers. So I guess the Sprints (rears) should be the same price.

 

Eurocar Parts hold the UK license for Bilstein. But try www.motorsportworld.co.uk as they usually offer 15% discount on ECP prices.

[Wurzel 16]

So how come the sports shock are £164 each for the fronts if they are essentially the same as the rest but better suited to a different length spring??

 

Is it a case of not being a package deal. £488 for a set of shocks without springs seem a fair bit more than the sprintline package.

[Adi 0]

Is it a case of not being a package deal. £488 for a set of shocks without springs seem a fair bit more than the sprintline package

 

At a guess.......I would say there will be more Sprintline kits sold as most "tuning" style people will want to lower their cars -40mm.

So the Sports will be more expensive as there aren't as many sold.

 

As the Sports are originally designed as an upgrade to run with the std springs, then I feel most people will opt for the Sprintline kit.

 

But the Sports can run with uprated spring as well. So a -30mm spring will suit the Sports. And the geometry will be better off for leaving the car that bit higher.

 

£488 for a set of shocks

 

Have you rung www.motorsportworld.co.uk for a quote yet?? The Sports should be a good bit cheaper than £488 from them.

[fiji bob 0]

maybe they dont expect to sell as many seeing as most people would buy a full kit

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

At a guess.......I would say there will be more Sprintline kits sold as most "tuning" style people will want to lower their cars -40mm.

 

The Sprintline kit lowers the 205 by a claimed 25mm.

[Wurzel 16]

Right, thought that might be the case.

 

I got the price from £164 per front shock and around £80 for each rear. I'm still waiting for a quote back from motorsportworld. Perhaps I should phone as it would be quicker.

 

Sprintlines are looking favourable at the moment however Me_Z205 has a point about the lowering height.

 

I guess the sprintline shocks would work with -40mm springs (although -30mm might be better for geometry), but you mentioned that any 'longer' springs would get trapped (I guess you mean pre-compressed too much).

[Adi 0]

The Sprintline kit lowers the 205 by a claimed 25mm[/quote

 

Got to admit......I'm forgetting the GTI is lower to start off with. I'm used to dealing with cars where the Sprintline is -40mm.

 

The best guide will be the inclination of the lower wishbones. If they are nearly parallel at std height......it doesn't really want lowering.

 

But thats down to personal preference.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Is the Sprintline shock still a short stroke damper??

 

And is it still ideally suited to a 40mm drop?

 

I'm thinking of swopping the springs that came with the kit, to some Eibachs/SBC dual rate springs. I don't fancy dropping the car by more than 30-35mm.

 

Any other springs you can recommend?

 

Cheers for the tip on the negatove camber by the way. Can't really consider it at the moment with the Mi16 rebuild etc!

[fiji bob 0]

i think its just h&r that do good quality springs

[Adi 0]

Is the Sprintline shock still a short stroke damper??

 

Yes the Sprint is a short stroke damper.

 

If the standard springs that come with the Sprintline kit are only -25mm.....then I guess that would mean that the GTI is around 15mm lower than standard.

 

Add those figures together and you get the -40mm normally associated with the Sprintline kit.

 

Any other springs you can recommend?

 

The only point of reference I can give you to do with the height of the front end, is the inclination of the lower arms.

The inner mount should be higher than the outer ball joint when the car is stationary and on the flat.

This ensures the steering and front suspension works together properly on normal roads when hitting bumps and cornering.