Not Confident Of Removing/cleaning Sad Anyone Near Manchester Want To

[john-melbourne 6]

Hi Guys,

 

I have just replaced the plugs/distributor cap and rotor arm, so my CTI now starts with a bit of persuasion but still doesn't idle when cold, but is fine when the car warms up. I managed to locate the SAD but Dont feel confident in removing it myself. I managed to remove all the air pipes and everything that was in the way to locate it apart from the distributor. It was at this point i lost confidence in taking the distributor off and put it all back together again I couldn't seem to find the bolts that hold it in and couldn't maneuver my arm to find them with the distributor in the way.

 

Is there anyone in and around the Manchester area that has experience of doing this job and would be willing to help me for some beer tokens and a few brews

 

John

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

It is a mechanically simple job, just a bit awkward.

It sounds like you got 90% of the way there already.

Make a good mark between the distributor and head near the top securing nut, then remove it. When out if you look at the drive end you'll see it can only go in one way around. Don't turn it whilst it's out to make refitting easy.

Everyone has to start somewhere!!

[gsidave 3]

Where abouts in Manchester are you ?

[john-melbourne 6]

In Ashton pal

[ian010778 21]

Hey - I'm a real novice and replacing the SAD was one of the first things I did last year. As mentioned, you were nearly there if you had the air pipes removed. I found I didn't have to remove the distributor - I just took the cap and rotor arm off and then took other bits off to allow access as I'm not confident taking the distributor off. I did remove the SAD again last weekend as I didn't think the new one was closing properly (squeezing the SAD pipe at full operating temp' was still affecting idle speed after fixing an air leak I missed a while ago) - here's what I did to test/fix it.

 

After taking all the air pipes off I removed the battery and the angled bracket from around the battery tray - this helped with access. I then drained the coolant and took off the short fat pipe between the ECU temp' sensor housing and the thermostat housing.

 

With these removed I could then get a 13mm socket on the bracket that holds the ECU temp' sensor housing to the engine (two studs) and with this removed I disconnected the SAD pipes and the remaining coolant pipe and removed the whole lot from the car. I then removed the two SAD bolts using a 10mm socket.

 

It is really awkward but if I can do it I'm sure you can! This is also probably a long way around but as said I wouldn't want to take the distributor off so this way seemed easiest for me as I didn't do anything I could cock up too much

 

Not sure if this is right but in order to 'service' and test my SAD I undid the nut a little to crack the thread lock and allow some adjustment and then put it in my electric fan oven on 80 degrees for about 20 minutes (I protected the connector with some kitchen foil). As suspected, the hole had closed but not fully.

 

I then removed it from the oven and whilst warm I adjusted the nut until the hole was fully closed, being careful not to over adjust as you need the hole to open as far as possible when cold. I then bonded the nut so it can't move again and left it outside in the cold for half an hour - voila, the hole opened up again. I then put it back in the oven to test and sure enough it fully closed.

 

Now, when the car is up to temp', if I squeeze the SAD pipe it makes no difference to the idle behavior (as it should be). I have compensated for the hole not being 'as open' when cold by playing with the idle speed screw but this is only a temporary measure as the idle speed and mixture are being set up properly by a garage next week.

 

Also, check out Chief's SAD article on the main site http://www.205gtidrivers.com/ this is where I started and I found getting a full understanding of how it works and what other things can affect the idle (air leaks, vacuum, clogged breathers/throttle body etc.) really helped me narrow down if the SAD actually needed replacing in the first place as you may find the SAD is fine but something easier might be stopping the effective cold idle.

 

HTH

 

 

Ian.

[john-melbourne 6]

Hi Guys,

 

Just wanted to let you know i followed Ian's instructions above, and managed to replace the SAD this afternoon! Took a few hours with brew breaks in-between, but i feel a sense of accomplishment! The car now idles a lot better and starts first time, it idles about 2000rpm when cold and slowly drops to about 1500 when fully up to temp. Does this sound like i need to adjust the idle screw now? Also the car seems to hesitate for about 4-5 seconds before jumping up to the idles speeds described above. Any advice on what to do now or look out for?

 

Thanks

 

John

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

I think it should be more like 1200 when cold and closer to 850 or 900 when warm. If you're sure there are no air leaks, adjust the idle screw until you get closer to these values.

[john-melbourne 6]

I was going to adjust the idle screw, but when you first start the car, it sounds like its going to cut out for about 5 to 10 seconds but doesn't, then the revs pick up, If i adjust the idle screw will this not make this worse? Replacing the SAD has definitely helped as before it wouldn't start at all, kept cutting out unless you held the revs manually.

 

John

[welshpug 1,657]

sounds like a tired afm as well as needing the air screw winding it a bit.

[john-melbourne 6]

Thanks Welshpug, is there a way of testing the AFM, or is it a case of just buying another one?

 

John

[ian010778 21]

Hey John, glad I was of some help.

 

My 1.6 8v is exactly the same - when it's proper cold it takes 20 seconds or so for it to idle on its own but after the work I've done it no longer screams away at 2krpm when cold only to struggle at about 800 when warm. I haven't had it out on the road for a few years though and I know the mixture screw (the one on the AFM) is out so I'm hoping this will improve once I give it a good run/clear out and the idle mixture is set properly. Also, I'm hoping that just using the car regularly will help to keep the breathers clear which will keep the idle more consistent.

 

You may see from my own thread that my idle isn't perfect as I currently have issues with electrical loads but with no lights/fans/other devices on my 1.6 idles at about 1000rpm on the rev counter when warm and on a cold start about 1600 (which I'm happy with).

 

When I started the restoration I had major idle problems - other things I did to improve this include: -

• Removal and cleaning of the throttle body including making sure all inlets/outlets are clear (hot soapy water, a stiff brush and plenty of WD40)
  
• Whilst throttle body off, removed and cleaned contacts on the throttle position switch and tested with a meter. Then made sure it is set correctly when re-fitting before putting back on the car
  
• Making sure the vacuum unit located at the back of the dizzy is working properly (suck on the thin pipe that goes onto the throttle body and you shouldn't be able to get any air through)
  
• A good service including fuel filter, spark plugs, rotor arm and dizzy cap (got plugs, dizzy cap and rotor arm from Halfords - yes, I was surprised too)
  
• Making sure all the breathers are clear (it's not uncommon for 'mayo' to build up if only used for short runs) - again, lots of hot soapy water
  
• Eliminated all air leaks that may allow un-metered air into the system
  
• As previously mentioned, set the SAD up so that it lets no air in once closed
  
• Whilst the SAD was off I put a new ECU coolant temp' sensor in
  

I have taken the top off my AFM and made sure the contact was good on the track all the way around - there's an article somewhere on this - and I stiffened the spring by three clicks as it was over-fueling last time I drove her but I'm yet to see if this has improved things as I haven't took her out for a drive yet. However, this won't affect the idle as once the throttle position switch closes the ECU ignores the AFM and the mixture is solely dependent on the screws (mixture screw on AFM and idle speed screw on throttle body). Tweaking the AFM was really easy - just a bit tricky when breaking the seal (nearly took my thumb off with my Stanley!) but as mentioned I won't see what difference that has made to how the car drives until next week when i get her MOT'd.

 

You can test your AFM by using a meter and power source but I didn't get this far - I just cleaned it all out and made sure the contact was good as I didn't quite 'get' how to do the testing (as said, this really isn't my thing but I wanted a project and the 205 seemed like a good idea).

 

Anyway - I hope this hasn't come across patronising as some of the things I've listed are quite rudimentary but they're the things I had to learn and do when I started my project last year and this forum really helped me understand and get to grips with it all so hopefully you'll find this useful.

 

I think with regard to idle speeds it's really down to your car - I think the book says somewhere between 750 and 800 when warm but the rev counters are not renowned for accuracy and mine certainly likes to rev about 1000 on its rev counter when warm and this (when it was my everyday) gave me good performance and efficiency (320 miles to a tank), which is what I'm working toward achieving now.

 

 

IP

[john-melbourne 6]

Not patronising at all Ian, very informative! If you ever need any veterinary advice give me a shout lol

[ian010778 21]

Not patronising at all Ian, very informative! If you ever need any veterinary advice give me a shout lol

 

If only, one of our cats had Feline calicivirus last year, could have done with some advice! Glad I could be of some help.

 

 

Ian.