What To Do On/With A High Miler Gti-6 Engine?

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

I recently posted a topic Servicing A Very Low Miler Mi16 Engine Stored For A Very Long Time? but plans (might) have changed a bit afterwards.

 

I'm currently quite tempted by a GTI-6 engine swap, as it's more powerful, more modern and seemingly more simple (no AFM, dizzy cap and arm, ignition amp etc). I've not looked into the aspects of this engine and swaps into 205's until very recently, so bear with me.

 

However, this engine might be a (very) high miler @ an estimated 160k miles. Apparently, it's had a cambelt change recently and big end bearings for a peace of mind about a year ago. I've not heard it running but supposedly it ran fine except for some ignition troubles, even after 4 new coils - unsurprisingly, given the state of the wires going to them! The loom seems to have been molested a bit and the ECU hasn't been unlocked prior to removal.

 

As I can't really do any practical tests on it as it is (other than state it turns freely), should I just go with it or have it fully disassembled and rebuilt? Given how extremely rare these engines are over here and spares are non-existent, it might not be worth opening it up and finding out it's just fine. But on the other hand, it wouldn't be wise to do a complete swap only to find out the engine's shagged either .

[welshpug 1,657]

160k is nothing these days, was the water pump done with the belt ? if so just stick it in as is.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

I think I've been told it had a leak from the water pump, but that it was sorted out with the big service - so that should be a yes, I guess?

 

I'll take the cambelt cover off to check what's going on under it anyhow.

 

 

Just a few quick questions about the swap:

 

- Can a GTI or an Mi16 PAS pump be adapted (mounting points look the same but orientation and pulley might be different)?

- What's the "block" and a connector on the OE high pressure PAS hose for?

- Can I use 205's rear engine mount casing (seeing as it's still an XU engine)?

- Does the ECU require an electronic speed sensor to function correctly?

- Will it run fine on 205 Motronic lambda sensor?

 

There will probably be more later on .

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I think I've been told it had a leak from the water pump, but that it was sorted out with the big service - so that should be a yes, I guess?

 

I'll take the cambelt cover off to check what's going on under it anyhow.

 

 

Just a few quick questions about the swap:

 

- Can a GTI or an Mi16 PAS pump be adapted (mounting points look the same but orientation and pulley might be different)? Have a look at Anthony's build thread for his Jalopy, it's a good write up and will cover alot of the problems you'll come across

- What's the "block" and a connector on the OE high pressure PAS hose for? I think this tells the engine that the PAS is in operation and adjusts the engine speed to compensate otherwise it would stall on idle.

- Can I use 205's rear engine mount casing (seeing as it's still an XU engine)? Yep, bolts straight on. You'll need a stiff lower engine mount or it'll cause the engine/manifold to hit on parts of the body/master cylinder.

- Does the ECU require an electronic speed sensor to function correctly? Yes, I had alot of problems with stalling with it unconnected. You have to use a dual VSS sensor with a cable and 3 pin connector

- Will it run fine on 205 Motronic lambda sensor? Unsure.

 

There will probably be more later on .

 

Personally i'd replace the belt, tensioner/idler pulley and waterpump. I can get hold of bottom end bearings for cheaper than a lot of people (Glyco) and could send them over if needs be. Parts are pretty easy to get hold of over here. Apart from piston rings which are from Pug. WP I believe knows the combination of XU10J4 rings and something else that can be used.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Paul_13

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Use a 306 pas pump. I bought a complete 205 setup for my 6 and while the pump looks like it is a straight fit, it isn't

 

Much easier with the 306 item and belt tensioner

[petert 586]

As I can't really do any practical tests on it as it is (other than state it turns freely),

 

You can't give it a compression test? All you need is a starter motor and a bell housing. Pour a little kero (10-15mL) down each port and spin it over without any plugs in. This will help to move any carbon deposits that might hold a valve open. Then test each each cylinder. A little work now might save a lot of heart ache later.

[marksorrento205 80]

My gti6 engine in the 306 rallye has done 165k + and is still as strong as ever

[harryskid 193]

You don't want one thats taps!

[bas1974 0]

I've taken a '98 166.000 miles GTi6 engine totaly apart.

 

The parts I replaced were:

 

Head:

replaced 16 valves and placed 16 new valve guides

head skim

new valve stemseals

lapped the new valves in, inlet and exhaust camshaft were in good shape

tappets were good

 

Block:

bores were good (almost no wear/taper) and within tolerance, deglazed them and restored cross hatch patern

pistons were nearly as good as new and within tolerance

crankshaft was within tolerance

replaced piston rings

replaced big end bearings

replaced main bearings

 

And every seal, gasket was replaced offcourse.

 

Greetings,

 

Bas

[Alastairh 47]

My gti6 engine in the 306 rallye has done 165k + and is still as strong as ever

 

My old Phase 3 306 GTi6 was on 152k and just like you, strong as ever. Gamble either way, depends if your willing to take it or not.

 

Al

[bas1974 0]

The lambda sensor is of the same type, Bosch zirkonium type with 4 wires, 2 wires for heating and 2 wires for sensor.

The PAS sensor corrects the idle speed if power steering pressure is high (cornering), the engine does not stall however if the sensor is unplugged.

The looms on these cars can really be bad, every connector has to be checked (pin to pin) with a multimeter, cracks in cables especially the cables to the coils are normal. It;'s also wise to test the sensors (MAP/CTS/ATS/CPS etc.) and idle control motor if these work correct.

 

Bas

Edited April 6, 2012 by bas1974

[shalmaneser 26]

Check out my build thread; my 205 gti6 has got PAS, all the high pressure pipes connect straight up, the low pressure ones are easy to modify.

 

No reason for a 150k+ engine not to have another 50/100 k left in it.

 

Don't run it on Moronic, just use all the gti6 stuff. you have to fiddle around to get the right speedo adaptor and stuff but its easy, and all covered in my (and plenty of other peoples!) build thread.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You've got a long way to catch me up, 285k so far and as a few of you know still makes better than OE power, yes I know on a RR but compared with other GTI6's etc she's still better

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I think I ought not disassemble it or I will probably end up doing what Bas' did, while there's a good chance the engine will run just fine as is.

 

I will just take the cambelt cover off to check if it has really been replaced and check the tensioners and the water pump.

 

 

Basically, what I'd need to get is:

 

- unlocked ECU and a good loom, maybe one that's already been converted

- GTI-6 PAS pump and hoses to keep the idle happy

- S16 combined speed sensor

- oil pressure sensor adapter

- thermostat housing outlet adapter

 

Other than that, I'll have to get the exhaust manifold reangled (what about the downpipe?) and look into the cooling system (much different on LHD).

 

Ideally, I'd like to get a GTI-6 gearbox but otherwise I'd use a 1.9 with a 1.6 diff.

 

 

The thing that worries me the most is the inlet manifold to radiator clearance, as I'll probably be running an A/C system, so no fan cowling mods .

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

in real terms, its the getting the engine in thats the time consuming bit, getting it out again is easy peasy as you know what your doing. So maybe drop it in, get eveything wired in and things, then see how it drives, if its buggered then pull it back out again and give it a rebuild.

 

You're probably only looking at maybe an extra half days work doing it that way, But if it runs fine then youve saved yourself maybe weeks (rebuild time)

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

Yes, that's exactly what was my (hidden) point!

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

oops sorry, lol. Captain obvious strikes again!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Inlet will fit fine, quite a bit shorter than a Mi for example

[petert 586]

Does it fit with A/C though? The only one I've been involved with needed some mods and still isn't happy with the fit.

[Alastairh 47]

Superjosh has a ac 205 gti6 so it is do able!