[trackday_prep] Blue 5 - Track Toy Build

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Hi all - thought I'd bite the bullet and start my own (re)build thread as I've now accumulated enough parts & equipment that I've run out of excuses for not touching the car

 

The first part of this will be retrospective as catch up with the small amount of work & preparation that I have done over the last 4 years of ownership , finally catching up with what I got up to this weekend.

 

The inspiration to start my own car was a mates (Oli) Nova (no groans please) that I helped to build in 2007 iirc:

 

This was its completed state, after various iterations of tuning and development, resulting in a very impressive car.

 

 

Ubiquitous 'Red Top' but this came with a Kent cam and tbs, producing just under 200bhp on a 150k+ mile engine.

 

 

I've always liked 205s and currently have a little 106 as a daily so I thought I'd stay French and an MI'd 205 sounded like a good stable mate and sufficient competition to Oli's Nova

 

I bought the car in March '08 as a £350 eBay special with no T&T, but as it was local I went to check the car over before bidding and it 'looked' ok to me. The auction was won and the car trailered back home where it got a quick clean up to get rid of the crud that had accumulated while it was off the road.

 

Before:

 

After:

 

The paint work came up really well and there isn't any of the usual lacquer peel the 205 tends to suffer from.

 

The car is pretty standard and genuine other than the TSW Stealth / Escort(?) alloys, but these wouldn't be staying as they look to be quite square and I don't really like them! There were a few bits that looked a little rough, mainly the arch trims and valances as they were held on with self-tappers in places, but nothing that couldn't be sorted easily. The interior has the usual seat collapsed / ripped bolster on both the passenger and driver side, but again - these wouldn't be staying so I wasn't really bothered.

 

Next job was to sort somewhere suitable for the upcoming fun! I fortunately have a single garage, with the house so that was cleaned, painted, new strip lights and an old set of Ikea wardrobes found a new life as my work bench.

 

Before:

 

 

During:

 

 

Finished:

 

 

Edited March 25, 2012 by Liquid_106

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

The car was then pushed into its new home and that's where it has sat for the last 4 years while I have acquired all the bits I need for the build. During this time the car interior was stripped, which didn't reveal any unwanted rust or any other horror stories.

 

 

I've also refurbed a set of 309 wishbones & GTI-6 brakes, but I'm thinking I really need to change all the seals on the calipers to do it properly, so that will be a future task.

 

Before & After

 

 

I've also purchased lost of other bits (some listed in my sig), some of which will require a refurb / rebuild in due course, as and when I can get to them.

 

That sort of brings me up to present day, so on to my work today..... Having read various build threads on here and the horrors that some members find once they've stripped off the front end, I thought it best to check mine out before I put any more work into the shell.

 

Jesus! Every bolt screw & nut fought to be removed, the majority require to be drilled out as they either snapped, stripped or rounded off! Plus it's like the flipping Krypton factor trying to work out what bits to undo first and where all the hidden fasteners are - probably old hat to all those that have done it a few times.

 

So mid-day I started with this

 

 

and after a few hours work and scraped knuckles, I ended up with this

 

 

 

 

I've had a good poke round with a screw driver and the majority of the rust looks to be just surface crusty bits, the panels don't look to be holed in any places so that's a bonus. Next task is to wire wheel the affected areas and crack open the rust treatment and red oxide to prevent any future crustiness and the i guess a blow-over to make it look presentable .

 

I've swapped the front alloys for a spare set of 206 steelies as the tyres were absolutely shagged and I wanted to be able to move it round easily. Unfortunatly, the passenger side wheel appears to be locked, even with it in neutral I can't get the wheel to move - anybody know why this would be?

 

Again, no horror stories in the engine bay so far. The inlet canister had no filter, the passenger headlight feel apart as it was removed, so will need replacing. There are a few random plugs spotted around the engine bay that appear not to be to plugged into anything, the ignition leads are routed in a strange way and the wiring behind the passenger headlight looks 'interesting', but could be standard for all I know

 

Other than that, the engine is in need of a good clean and the list of bits and pieces I need to put everything back on has grown slightly longer, to be expected I guess!

 

I'll update this thread as and when anything happens, but I have no time frame for the build, it will be done when it's finished

 

Any comments welcome

 

Cheers

 

Steve

Edited March 25, 2012 by Liquid_106

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

I've swapped the front alloys for a spare set of 206 steelies as the tyres were absolutely shagged and I wanted to be able to move it round easily. Unfortunately, the passenger side wheel appears to be locked, even with it in neutral I can't get the wheel to move - anybody know why this would be?

Anybody shed some light on this? Don't think the brakes are binding so trying to work it out in my own head what bits in the transmission could be binding . Could it be the the wheel bearing as it's sat for four years in the same position?

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Are you sure it is in neutral or has a gear rod popped off? Jack it up and try moving the wheel forward and back by hand. You should get a little bit of movement if it was in gear and that would rule out wheel bearing and brake binding

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Don't think a linkage has popped off - the gear stick offers some resistance, but is still the usual bowl of porridge! The car was jacked up on the subframe with the front off the floor when I tried to turn the wheel, but it was locked solid.

 

I can understand the rears locking if the handbrake were left on for that length of time, but the brakes on the front aren't in contact so don't see how it could be them either

 

Typically the passenger side is right up against the garage wall, so I've little room to work - just enough to get the wheel on and off. Might buy a cheap skate board as a wheel trolly so I can at least drag it away from the wall and pull the brake pads out the caliper to rule that out.

 

(and also check the gear linkages properly )

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Quick update - no pics as I didn't really achieve anything this weekend

 

After Henry's post about the gear linkage, I checked and it was definitely in neutral so I removed the caliper / pads and the wheel span freely - result! (quite a simple solution in the end )

 

The problem is the car still didn't move; the front's are now both free and the rear driver-side has already had the drum internals removed, leaving only one culprit - which is right up against the wall. Jacked the rear up on the beam and dragged the car anyway from the wall, squeezed round the side and set off undoing the wheel bolts to find the last one is a locking bolt..............key would be useful at this point, which I've never had! I tried to drill out the bolt - didn't make a mark and the easy-out I tried just blunted - serves me right for buying cheap crap!

 

This left me thinking I'd have to drop the whole beam off and drag it down to a local garage and get them to remove the bolt, just so I can get the car mobile while its worked on. Fortunately, before I tried to do this I realised that I could just remove the hub nut and pull the wheel and drum off in one go, rather than the whole rear end - showing my inexperience here and would have looked a right tool if I had got round to removing the beam

 

Hub nut came undone surprisingly easy, considering the effort some have to go to [insert humorous breaker-bar pic] to get it off. However, I left the wheel on as it was getting late and I needed to get the car back into the garage and everything tidied up.

 

As the bits I've already removed need to be stored in the garage and so the smaller they are the better, I did manage to separate the valance / bumper and it's metal work as it was the most awkward of bits and kept getting in the way - small wins and all that, just need to replace all the small bolts as they were a mish-mash of different types and all rusted and useless.

 

Bought some Hydrate-80 this week so the plan for next weekend is to make a start on the front panel rust proofing and also get the rear drum / wheel off and get the bolt removed. Also want to take the front wings off to make sure there's nothing bad behind them and I have a strong suspicion that the car's had a bang on the front driver-side as the front panel is distorted / rippled round the light section and where it attaches to the chassis leg.

 

That's it for now

[Sinbad 16]

Good stuff mate,shell looks good.In the same places as where mine was surface rust.

Put this on Png aswell lol we will take over the projects section with 205's lol

[tri_longer 25]

If you are removing the wings I would be very careful, they tend to be bonded on very well, and can be easily destroyed whilst taking them off, leaving you with needing replacements.

[MiniGibbo 142]

Really good start, the car "doesn't" look like too much work is needed..!

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Good stuff mate,shell looks good.In the same places as where mine was surface rust.

Put this on Png aswell lol we will take over the projects section with 205's lol

Think they might get annoyed if they get any more French posted up

If you are removing the wings I would be very careful, they tend to be bonded on very well, and can be easily destroyed whilst taking them off, leaving you with needing replacements.

Didn't know that, so another thing to slow me down - thanks for the info, I would have been searching for hidden fixings lol. Wasn't intending to take them off but with the 'crumpling' in the front corner I want to check out and a small patch of rust in front of the A-pillar to sort, I need to take the driver side off so may as well do the passenger side.

Really good start, the car "doesn't" look like too much work is needed..!

The start was the hardest part, so just need to keep momentum now - but the car is fighting against me with every small task

 

Bilt Hamber arrived today so that's this weekends job sorted - after I get the rear wheel off. Car will be fine on stands at the rear if I'm only sorting the front out, just need to get it into a suitable position first.

 

To help the storage situation, I added another shelf to my work bench tonight. Can now get the welder under the shelf (planned ) and the various boxes of scrap metal parts waiting for refurb can fit on top, freeing up some space. The replacement beam will be banished to the floor for now so I have somewhere to work, I'll get round to sorting that once I've got one of Mr. Fenton's patented torsion bar puller.

 

Cheers for the comments

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

The start was the hardest part, so just need to keep momentum now - but the car is fighting against me with every small task

 

Well that didn't go too well...........

 

Unfortunately life got in the way, along with a unforeseen occurrences! I'd love to have the work rate of some of the projects on here, but I knew it would be a long term project, so meh!

 

I've managed a few hours over the last couple of weekends, so thought I'd keep this thread alive and post up the 'progress'.

 

Dad had borrowed my angle grinder, proceeded to drop and smash it after only 2 hours and so bought me a new DeWalt replacement - happy as the original only cost me £20ish from Maplins - Win

 

Anyway, he still has it so rather than any doing any bodywork, thought I'd test fit the cage, as it was getting in the way (the foot plates really do hurt when you catch your head on them!) and I wanted to see what the crack with the cage / dashboard would be.

 

To remove the dash, most of the wiring has to be removed / released (as you all know), so working methodically and tagging each connector as it was removed, the loom was peeled out from the dashboard - which was a b*tch to find all the securing nuts / screws / clips and remove. In a moment of clarity, I remembered reading on here something about nuts in the engine bay, so after removing the scuttle panel and removing the two nuts in there, the dash was out

 

The car has (had) a Laser alarm and also as I found out, a Clifford alarm, but with all the wires cut! As the car will be for track use only, I wanted to get rid of these and reduce the number of possible sources of electrical issues - along with stripping out all the un-required wiring for the stereo / central locking etc..

 

So.....dash is out, alarm(s) are out and the rear half of the cage is now in (test fitted). I was surprised how far back from the B-pillar the main hoop sits as my only previous experience was with the Nova in the first post. I was intending to tag the hoop to the pillars using the seatbelt bolt hole, but it looks too far away to be of any use Next bit will be to put in the front hoops and mark up where the cage feet mounts will need to go and then I need to decide if the dash is going back or enough of it to hold the instruments and switches.

 

Oh, also removed the sunroof and rails etc - which weigh a bloody tonne! So I'm now left with a hole to fill - I did email a company to enquire if they could produce a polycarb plug as I fancy that rather than the obligatory ally / CF panel riveted to the roof. Not heard back, so guess that's a dude!

 

That's me done, so expect the next update May 2013! - If we're all still here obviously

 

As the interior now stands:

 

Edited October 13, 2012 by Liquid_106

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Managed to do a little bit more last night: drivers door loom and central locking motor is out, can only manage this one at the moment without lots of car manoeuvring back and forth to make some garage space on the passenger side . Also removed the firewall sound deadening in one piece, with only a few small cuts so I didn't need to unplug all the fuse board etc. - Not decided if this is going back in yet, but nice to have the option.

 

Couldn't resist, so trial fitted the drivers door cage 'hoop' to check the fit etc. I originally bought the cage not knowing what the model was, but it was advertised as a SD cage to fit a 205. I did check with SD as to the model number / type, which according to them and the foot stamp is a C044 Challenge Spec:

 

 

I've seen pics of a C044 cage before and I don't know why I haven't put 2+2 together, but mine doesn't have the rear cross diagonal and harness bars so looks like the C012 (6 point), but is attached to the rear beam mounts like the C044 (12 point) and has all the additional attachment points (screen top, door-frame tops & A-pillars). Has anybody seen one like this before or have I just got one that wasn't finished off??

 

 

Anyway, fitting the door hoops: Thinking the cage was a C044, I knew the dash had to come out as it wouldn't fit otherwise. The cage will slightly higher at the the main hoop as the B-pillar feet need the floor plates in place, but the front section looks to be tight for space around the dashboard mounts:

 

 

The saddle bracket between front / rear cage is almost aligned, but the front foot looks to be too far away from the sill and A-pillar. The foot / box plates will need a tickle with a grinder to get the correct profile so it will sit a little closer (pic 4), but even with that, I think the dash bracket (pic 2) is stopping the front section from getting any closer to the A-pillar (pic 3)

 

Can anyone with a C044 cage confirm if I need to remove the dash brackets for the whole lot to fit correctly or if there is enough 'wiggle' room for it to fit once all the separate pieces are in place? Perhaps I could trim the dash bracket as it would only need a little bit of or even just sack the dash off and have just the instrument binnacle

 

Does any of my waffling make any sense?

 

Might contact SD as I think the other numbers on the cage foot will be the serial number - they'll probably be able to give me a definitive answer.

 

(BTW - yes, I know there is rust under where the cage foot will mount - this will be sorted before it gets fitted )

 

Not much of an update, but little steps.........

[GilesW 41]

Nice project. I have a 'long term' project too. I tend to do more planning and buying parts than actually doing stuff to it. lol

 

The Nova - is that Oli Hewits?

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Nice project. I have a 'long term' project too. I tend to do more planning and buying parts than actually doing stuff to it. lol

 

The Nova - is that Oli Hewits?

Same here - bought the majority of stuff I'll need already, so no waiting round now I've got some impetus to finish the car. In retrospect, could have done it a lot cheaper buying an already complete car, but where's the fun in that? Couple of impulse buys I made initially, in retrospect I wish I hadn't - but I've decided to build with what I have now and then improve once I've used it in anger, rather than trying to get it perfect first time

 

Yes the Nova did belong to Olz, but it's now long gone and the parts spread far and wide. iirc, the shell went to Scotland, Ernie had the engine & bodies and nova ian had a few bits & pieces - only of relevance if you know these people

 

Cheers for the comment - have you got build thread?

[matt.f 16]

Bought a c44 last week and on every separate piece it has c44 stamped on it.

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Bought a c44 last week and on every separate piece it has c44 stamped on it.

Hmmmm, just have C044 stamped on the B-pillar foot, along with what I believe is the cage serial number. Emailed SD with the serial, so will wait to hear back - confused.com!

Edited October 16, 2012 by Liquid_106

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Response to my email query:

Thanks for your email, I'll do my best to assist with your questions.

 

You are correct in stating the C044 mounts to the rear beam mountings, while the C012 mounts to the boot floor.

However, it is possible for dealers to request roll cages in different configurations to meet specific customer needs. I imagine we have supplied a number of C044 roll cages with a single diagonal over the years.

 

To confirm 100% which model you have, it would be worth you sending a few photos of the roll cage. Please include photos of the foot plates.

 

Unfortunately we are unable to supply the additional parts due to the nature of being a safety product. We are aware how these roll cages move around over the years and therefore find it very difficult to keep track of cages modified after leaving the factory, as I'm sure you can understand.

 

Let me know your thoughts and I'll see how we can help.

So took some photos:

Bought a c44 last week and on every separate piece it has c44 stamped on it.

Hadn't noticed these markings before:

Guess that decides it - I have a C44 cage, without the rear cross diagonal!

 

Grinder has been returned, along with a pair new knotted wire wheels, so I guess it's rust treating time this weekend! Have got some Bilt-Hamber Hydrate 80 to finish off any rust that doesn't get removed after the grinding, but I'll need to get something to paint on afterwards.

 

I've considered using

as I can get it from Halfrauds (with a trade card) quite readily. Has anybody used this - is it any good or am I better using something else (POR15)?? Would I be better using an etch primer first as I'm sure that with all the cleaning up, I'll be down to bare metal.

 

Thanks for looking, any comments / advice appreciated.

[matt.f 16]

Get some tubing and weld another diagonal in and two harness bars

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Hang fire with plating the roof, i'm in same situation and blanked it. It looks s*it! So i'm going an alternate route of using lexan (tinting it first) to go over the hole, rivets to hold it down and then attach the sunroof trims back on.

 

Will make it look much neater

 

I know your is a track toy, I had the same intention but wanted to keep it looking half tidy

Edited October 19, 2012 by Paul_13

[Tom Fenton 1,547]

decided to build with what I have now and then improve once I've used it in anger, rather than trying to get it perfect first time

 

I don't think there is such as thing as a perfect 205, mine has a spec list as long as your arm and yet I still seem to be able to create another list almost as long of things i'd like to change or alter on it.

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Get some tubing and weld another diagonal in and two harness bars

Had considered this, but think I'll have to get a more experienced welder to put in the additions - especially as they'd be holding the harnesses.

Hang fire with plating the roof, i'm in same situation and blanked it. It looks s*it! So i'm going an alternate route of using lexan (tinting it first) to go over the hole, rivets to hold it down and then attach the sunroof trims back on.

 

Will make it look much neater

 

I know your is a track toy, I had the same intention but wanted to keep it looking half tidy

Know exactly what you mean - it's primarily a track car, but don't want it looking like a turd! I didn't want to keep the sunroof because firstly the cage wouldn't fit with it it place and secondly it weighs lots! I had though of a lexan 'bubble' to fill the hole, mounted & sealed from the inside as you can 'warm' form it over a plug to get the exact shape. The form would be used to add the slight compound curve off the roof and possibly a lip to aid with the mounting. However, might be a little too OTT for a solution

I don't think there is such as thing as a perfect 205, mine has a spec list as long as your arm and yet I still seem to be able to create another list almost as long of things i'd like to change or alter on it.

Perhaps I should have said perfect for me . I think I could end up spending money on some things that are either not required or are not the best solution for as yet unknown issues / deficiencies. Best have a starting point and then go from there, to see what does / doesn't work (for me), rather than going with what's considered 'right' by the masses.

 

Anybody have anything to add regarding the best paint to use?

 

As always, thanks for the comments / advice

 

Steve

[SurGie 54]

I think learning to track drive better and more precise is one of the best ways to gain time after a lot of parts and money spent on it.

 

Nice project BTW, love the Miami 205 gti's, after the grey's and white ones.

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

I think learning to track drive better and more precise is one of the best ways to gain time after a lot of parts and money spent on it.

That's why the engine is staying 1600 8v for now and everything else is getting done - so I can get used to the car and better my driving, until the car is too slow for me (rather than the other way round), at which point I'll change the engine.

Nice project BTW, love the Miami 205 gti's, after the grey's and white ones.

Cheers

[matt.f 16]

I would modify the cage,might aswell while all the interior is out.Plus brings it more upto date with cages having more and more tubes and having harness bars are a lot better than having harnesses clipped to the boot floor/original seatbelt holes

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Updating time.....

 

So, today began the unenviable task of sorting out the rust on the front panel

 

I'd previously had a dig around to see if the panel was Swiss cheese, but fortunately it's still pretty solid. What I started with today

 

 

Some big surface scabs on the panel surface and some slight blistering on the edges / underside of the panel. After a good going over with the wire brush & angle grinder, I was left with the following

 

 

The keen eyed amongst you will notice that this isn't a straight panel I'd suspected some damage to that side as the wing & bonnet was also 'rippled'. It looks like the area around the light has either been hammered (badly) back into shape or somebody has made a replacement panel (badly). All the edges of the light cut-out is bent and uneven and it looks as though the small square hole was made with a pickaxe tip!

 

There also looks to be some rippling on the cant rail (?) and also lots of surface rust - didn't look as I wanted to concentrate on one piece at at time, so will be checked properly at a later date.

 

Anyway, after all the rust was removed and two good coats Hydrate-80, resulted in the following

 

 

You can still see the heavy pitting in the bottom right (and the rust on the inner wing, through the light cut-out), but after a few good coats of filler primer, this hopefully won't look as bad.

 

Next on to the the lower cross member - same process: grind back the rust spots to where the metal looks unaffected (no pitting) and the give it a good couple of coats of Hydrate-80. Only took some 'before' photos, so none with the after effects on the treatment. Not sure if I'm going to be keeping this cross member or adding a removable bar, so all this effort may be a waste of time

 

">

 

Onto the nearside: a few scabs, especially round the towing eye

 

 

I thought the only problem at the front was with the offside, but looking at it again, I noticed that the nearside vertical support was only part painted in blue and wasn't even spot welded the light panel

 

 

So - the nearside has had a replacement panel! This was further confirmed when I started to clean up the rust and was met with a cloud of filler dust, from a thin layer covering most of the left side of the panel. You can also see where the panel has been plug welded on and the welds ground / hacked back. Didn't bother with any photos of this as I was hacked off with the whole thing so just covered it in Hydrate-80 and packed up for the day!

 

Not sure what to do now. I think with the rust that's present on both cant rails, I need easy access to remove it all, making sure it's all solid and strong. Its difficult to do this with all the bits that are still in place (wiring etc), which can be removed easy enough, but I'm considering replacing both front panels to make sure it's done properly

 

Both wings will definitely be coming off (look out for wanted thread, when I screw this up ) as they are rusted up around the bumper mounting points and I'd like to be able to check the inner wings are ok.

 

This is turning into a bit of a resto, which I didn't want it to be as it's 'only' a track car, but I want to make sure it's all strong and sound as we all know 205s aren't the strongest to begin with!

 

This raises the question, do I also drop the engine out now, to give me room to do the whole engine bay as what's the point of doing half a job?

 

What's you thoughts? Should I just pack it full of filler and forget its there ( ) or do I do it properly?

 

Need to stick a coat of zinc primer on tomorrow night, once the Hyrdate-80 has had time to dry / cure properly, might take a couple of snaps to illustrate the problem.

 

Cheers for looking.