Xu Gearboxes, Interchangeable?

[BlueBolt 156]

I've been reading through quite a few threads and wanted to make sure I'm reading right??

 

Am I right in thinking that most of the internals are interchangeable between the 1.6/1.9/mi/gti6 boxes??

 

What have people found to be the best setup of a "custom" box with the gearing from different boxes put into one?

 

Also, while I'm on the subject, can someone explain to me the purpose/difference of the CWP?? I had someone tell me that the "best" one to get was a 4.4 from the mi box, but he numbers mean nothing to me and as I'm not even sure what it does, it means even less!!

 

To my way of thinking, from what I've read, I'd like to make a box up from the first three gears from a 1.6, four and five from a 1.9...?? So I have the acceleration from the nippy 1.6 box with the economy from the end gears of the 1.9. With whatever CWP does best... But as I say, my knowledge is a lot less than limited, so I'm probably billion miles from right....???

[welshpug 1,662]

CWP is crown wheel and pinion, the numbers are the final drive which refer to the ratio between (engine x gear ratio) x (wheel) the crown wheel is bolted to the diff, the pinion machined to the end of the output shaft, and are paired.

 

 

the difference between a 1.6 and 1.9 box are mainly the final drive, aka CWP, plus different gears 1st and 2nd.

 

1.9 would be a decent standard gearset to fit to a 4.4 final drive.

 

not much from the gti6 box is compatible, mainly synchro's.

 

there is a limited choice of 1st and 2nd gears used, 3rd and 4th are one piece, 5th to a point can be from any gearbox, there are many minor details that might not make some bits compatible.

[BlueBolt 156]

How much wouldn't expect to pay for the CWP on a 4.4 then?? Think I had someone try selling me one a while ago for about £150 but didn't have the money or any knowledge about them to know if I was beig ripped off...

 

Reading though the a thread this morning talking about a 4.8, does this give it a longer final drive?? I'm guessing the 4.4 giving a good transformation to the 1.9 box makes it shorter bursts like the 1.6 box has??

[welshpug 1,662]

4.8 is shorter, quite a bit shorter

 

 

as for how much to pay for a 4.4 FD, £150 is quite a common price, though I got a complete Xsara VTS box for £80 delivered a few weeks ago.

[BlueBolt 156]

So the higher the number the shorter the gear lengths end up?? Guessing the 4.8 is going to make it a non-idea for an everyday road car if I'm trying to keep economy in the back (very back) of my mind??

[welshpug 1,662]

if that's the case I would stick to a standard MI or 1.6 box, or even a 1.9 box if its a 1.9, 4.4 with 1.9 gearset certainly wouldn't be my choice for day to day driving unless I had a vtec engine

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Yep.

 

To the original poster, you need to make your mind up what the car is for. If you want economy forget big power conversions and short ratio gearboxes.

[BlueBolt 156]

It will be an every day motor, which is why I'm going down the 16v route to gain the initial power gains and looking at other things to do along the lines also...

However, this will only be my daily driver for about a year till the "family car" becomes my work horse and the gti comes out at weekends and the such...

 

I guess I'll keep the standard 1.9 box for now and see what I want or feel like further down te line... Coming to some of the meets and asking for passenger rides would also e a good way to gauge what the difference will be an give me the time to think about it more....

 

Chris

[Anthony 1,003]

If it's an everyday car, I would suggest not going shorter than a 1.6 GTi gearbox (which is about 10% shorter than a 1.9)

 

Depending what 16v engine you're going for, you might find a 1.9 gearbox feels a bit sluggish - it's not too bad on a GTi-6 as they're quite a torquey engine, but an Mi16 feels distinctly underwhelming on a 1.9 gearbox. I had forgotten just how bad it is until I picked up a 205 Mi16 last month that has a 1.9 box, and it really is ill-suited.

 

1.6 and Mi16/VTS gearboxes are generally the best suited commonly available gearbox for a 'valver road car IMO.

[BlueBolt 156]

That's Kewl. I'm looking to do the gti6 transfer, well I'm not going to but am going to be getting someone to donut for me... (if only I had the tools knowledge and space to be able to!!)

 

Thank you all for the info given...

 

What do you competition lot run in your sprint/rally/hill climb etc cars?? Just on an inquisitive note that is...

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

For reference

 

Be3 1.6 & 1.9 box's generally share the same 1 to 5 with a different FD, the early BE3's did have a lower 1st but this was never documented AFAIK

 

Very early BE1's with metal selectors use C/R gears to suit the 105bhp engine, never used one of these personally but have 3 sets of them at work

 

You cannot change 1st/2nd & 3rd/4th as these are matched pair's of gears on the relevant shaft

 

Synchro's are unique to BE1, BE3 and the 6 speed, the 3/4 hub is the only one cross compatible across the board and fit 5&6 in the 6 speed

 

You need to watch out for the pitch of the gears as they changed from time to time so they all need to match.

 

Late (Xsara) CWP's use a longer Pinion shaft

 

BE4's have 3 different dia of Pinion shaft

 

BE3 box's have 2 different Dia of 5th gear bush, Just a few thousands of a mm mind.

 

BE4 206 GTi internal's can be used, ratio's are very close to the std 205 GTi