Engine Conversion Advice

[Will Eastman 6]

I am planning to replace the gearbox in my 1.6 gti in Easter holiday, I also as having an urge for abit more power and feel that this would be an ideal time to do it as the gearbox is coming out anyway. I am low on funds and dont think I could justify much more than £500 on it but would love to chuck something else in, be it a tuned 1.9 8v or a full on 16v job. I have seen this engine on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230738857408?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1238wt_411

 

and think it fits the bill nicely as its 8v but nice and powerful, if i chose to run the car on standard 8v inlet/injectors what kinda of power would I see?

 

Any thoughts on the pros cons of fitting a GTI6 lump or a tunned 8v, noting my low budget and basic skills (but im eager to learn).

 

Any help would be much appreciated

[Anthony 1,003]

That engine is not going to run anything like properly on standard management/ignition IMO - too much cam and too much compression.

 

As for a 1.9 8v compared to a GTi-6, they're leagues apart in most ways. Obviously the GTi-6 is going to be much quicker (say 40hp more than a typical 1.9 8v) but is a much more involved conversion and perhaps not the best place to start with limited skills/experience - it's not difficult as such, but if it's not something you've done before it's liable to end up leaving you frustrated and with a car off the road. Depending on the car, there's a fair bit of faffing around getting it to fit properly, exhaust needs cutting/welding, wiring needs adapting, and a few other bits.

 

A (standard) 1.9 8v is barely more involved than a straight engine swap for another 1.6, and indeed you can effectively do it as a straight swap and even leave it on the same management etc (although I'd personally swap it to proper 1.9 stuff) and would be a much better starting point for a comparitive beginner.

 

Also, you'll struggle to do a GTi-6 conversion properly on a £500 budget when a complete engine package with loom, unlocked ECU etc is going to be the best part of that on its own.

 

As an aside, a 1.9 Mi16 is somewhere between the two in terms of difficulty and worth considering, although keep in mind that most are tired these days and aren't going to last years without a partial rebuild. Could be done on budget just about, although clearly not with a rebuild.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Anthony

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

To be completely honest, for £500 you are going to struggle.

 

For a start, to buy a GTi6 lump with decent history, a large chunk of your budget has gone straight away.

 

If you are going to do it properly, you will spend more than your budget on bits alone. It's suprising how much consumables alone like fluids, Clutch - around £100 alone for the mi16 one to mate with your 1.6 box, etc add up. Then you have things like solid mounts - not 100% neccasary, but the more you skimp on to get the thing on the road, the more disapointed you may end up. If you don't get an unlocked ECU with a '6 engine you purchase, there is another £50 plus. You will want to do a cambelt change while it is out, so thats another £80 or so. Are you going to wire it yourself? Plug and play looms range from £110-£250. I could go on. But I daren't add up my expenditure.

 

Of course if you are happy to recycle hoses etc then it may be possible for £500, but I think I would be putting the £500 elsewhere.

 

I am sure others will disagree and say it is more than achievable, but I for one dislike seeing people pop an engine out of the 306/xsara into the 205 the same day and seeing jubilee and copper T pieces everywhere.

[kyepan 291]

Save your pennies and buy a known car that has been converted by someone who knows what their doing, least hassle and expenditure.

 

Change the box for now and see how you get on with that.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

When doing the box, don't forget to budget for a new clutch if req'd. That's a portion of your pot gone already!

 

Spend whatever you have left on getting the car handling/braking as it should. A 'tight' 1.6 is still a laugh to drive.

 

A £500 16v conversion is long gone, if you want it to last. Even a GTi6 would probably require a partial rebuild these days, let alone an Mi16 (unless you find a rebuilt item. There is one up for £900 to give you an idea). IMO biggest issue with Mi's these days, is the management. Working AFMs/management etc are getting scarce

[dcc 855]

To put this into perspective

 

Engine

Loom/ecu

Exhaust Manifold and downpipe

Coolant hoses

 

 

To do it all yourself, you'll be looking at what it will cost for a complete engine from 306. - circa £300

 

To get it all done withoput much involvement, £1000+

[m_attt 31 1 Cars]

whish more people knew the true cost before dismissing my conversion package for £700 that included everything down to exhaust, hoses, solid mounts etc

[tom_xl 2]

£700 sounds pretty good for all that, I may be very interested when June comes around and I have time to put a new engine in!

[allye 530 3 Cars]

£700 sounds pretty good for all that, I may be very interested when June comes around and I have time to put a new engine in!

 

Its still £200 on top of the that for service parts, fluids, advised cambelt change etc etc. So your still looking at the best part of £1k.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Plus the gearbox which will need to be sourced. Another £50-70 quid for example. The odd £20 for fuel pipe and jubilee's needed for the coolant hoses. £15 for a throttle cable. £20 for a genuine exhaust manifold gasket which you would really want to change when the manifold is off to be re-angled. £15-£20 for driveshaft seals. £5 for gearbox bushes. Suprising how it all adds up when you start to change bits that you really do want to change when it's easiest to do it to save hassle in the future.

[m_attt 31 1 Cars]

apart from when its been done less than a 1k miles ago and all included

[Anthony 1,003]

To be fair, many of these costs are things that would often need doing regardless even if you were keeping the original engine - cambelt, waterpump, fluids, diff seals etc - but yes I agree it's all the little, unseen costs that very quickly add up but that are one of the things that typically differentiate a reliable long lasting install and one that's a constant headache.

 

And m_att, you're sailing very close to the wind with what's a thinly vailed advert...

[tom_xl 2]

Plus the gearbox which will need to be sourced. Another £50-70 quid for example. The odd £20 for fuel pipe and jubilee's needed for the coolant hoses. £15 for a throttle cable. £20 for a genuine exhaust manifold gasket which you would really want to change when the manifold is off to be re-angled. £15-£20 for driveshaft seals. £5 for gearbox bushes. Suprising how it all adds up when you start to change bits that you really do want to change when it's easiest to do it to save hassle in the future.

 

Yeah I know what you mean, I got my 205 2 years ago (a long time I know but I'm a poor student lol) thinking all I would need to do is swap engines over and change the suspension a bit but as I dug deeper I found more and more things to do and basically ended up completely stripping the car! I realised as I was going from TU to XU I needed new fuel tank/pump, subframe, hubs etc. etc. This is my first project so I guess I was a bit naive to start with!