Help! Has My Head Gasket Gone? Or Is It Worse?

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

typical, iv just got the car on the road after doing ALOT of hard work, it went well for the first day or 2, then developed a missfire.

I pulled the plugs out today to find they where soaked in rusty water, more on cylinders 3 and 4, the oil filler cap is full of white gunk, and the oil looks pretty clear almost see through, granted it had new oil and plugs before i got it on the road, but the engine had not been used for a few years.

However it always starts off the button and idles smoothly, just when you try driving it splutters like hell with no power!

bit of a nightmare as iv entered my first rally on feb 10th and i really don't want to miss it! is it worth doing the head gasket or if its more serious would i be better off just changing the engine? i know of a 309 mi16 locally but im worried it will be more involved than i'm hoping, and il miss the rally completely, my nav would kill me as were both wound up and ready to go!

any suggestions appreciated, iv done a search but id like a bit of confirmation, as if its the piston rings or liners il be out of my depth

[Anthony 1,003]

Mayo in the filler cap isn't really indicative of a head gasket failure on earlier XU engines in my opinions, but it is VERY common in this cold, damp weather on a car that doesn't get regular long runs.

 

Generally first symptoms I see of any HG failure on an XU is losing coolant, cooling system being excessively pressurised, and sometimes noticeably rough for a few seconds starting from cold (although of course, many Jetronic cars are like this at the best of times!). Only when they get really bad to you start seeing significant amounts of white smoke and running issues in my experience.

 

You mention water on the plugs - was this on the top or bottom half of the plug? Water sitting in the spark plug holes isn't unheard of and would play havoc under load, as would damp ignition parts in general really - certainly if it's been sat around, my first port of call would be to whip the dizzy cap off and check that it's dry as well as down the plug holes.

 

Assuming its an 8v as per your signature, if you're in any way doubtful of anything ignition related, just replace it as a matter of course seeing as it's all so cheap - I think cap, arm, plugs and leads cost me less than £30 all in last time I bought them. They're all on the shelf at my local Halfords (and cheap on trade if you've access to a card) and most motorfactors will likely have them too as it's all commonly used bits not specific to a 205.

[feb 47]

How can one tell if the cooling system is excessively pressurised?

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

Mayo in the filler cap isn't really indicative of a head gasket failure on earlier XU engines in my opinions, but it is VERY common in this cold, damp weather on a car that doesn't get regular long runs.

 

Generally first symptoms I see of any HG failure on an XU is losing coolant, cooling system being excessively pressurised, and sometimes noticeably rough for a few seconds starting from cold (although of course, many Jetronic cars are like this at the best of times!). Only when they get really bad to you start seeing significant amounts of white smoke and running issues in my experience.

 

You mention water on the plugs - was this on the top or bottom half of the plug? Water sitting in the spark plug holes isn't unheard of and would play havoc under load, as would damp ignition parts in general really - certainly if it's been sat around, my first port of call would be to whip the dizzy cap off and check that it's dry as well as down the plug holes.

 

Assuming its an 8v as per your signature, if you're in any way doubtful of anything ignition related, just replace it as a matter of course seeing as it's all so cheap - I think cap, arm, plugs and leads cost me less than £30 all in last time I bought them. They're all on the shelf at my local Halfords (and cheap on trade if you've access to a card) and most motorfactors will likely have them too as it's all commonly used bits not specific to a 205.

 

thanks for your very detailed reply btw

forgot to say its a 1.9 8v.

strange thing is it hasn't used any water, and i wouldn't say the white smoke is excessive.

I have changed the plugs, but not the leads. i have a new dizzy cap and rotor arm but not fitted them as when i checked they where like new and dry, but il change them tomorrow as a matter of coarse before i go in too deep and start pulling the head off!

when i whipped out the plugs the plug holes were sloshing with water,and i mean soaked! water dripping off the plugs! but it has been parked outside and the rain has been bad recently. i pulled the plugs out, wiped them clean, put a rag over the plug holes and gave it a quick turn over to get rid of the water, put the plugs back in and drove it.

It was still missing although it was a little better, before i did this the oil pressure was way down low (or is it high? completely opposite side of the red warning light) but it has always been close to that as iv uprated the oil pump spring and fitted a baffled sump, this time the level was looking a little healthier, the mayo in the cap is not un usual on a 205 i know, but there is quite a lot there, could it have any thing to do with the fact 'im running a oil catch tank of sorts (pipe running into an old can of strong bow with holes drilled in the top!).

Thanks for easing my panic il look at it with a new light tomorrow, i think il pull off the breather pipes and clean them out, change the plug leads and see if it makes any difference, if not il try get hold of a compression tester to see what that says and report back with the results, thanks again

 

edit with the spec of what iv done recently .. all the water pipes are brand new, new rad, new oil, filter, cambelt, the head is a skip brown road speed although in the paper work there is a note to say excessive material previously removed if that could make any difference? and the tachy relay was once full of water but iv cleaned it up with wd40 and it appears to be working correctly.

Edited January 12, 2012 by bensonmi

[feb 47]

I don't know about 205's but it must be similar I suppose; in Subarus running a catch tank on an everyday car can cause more problems than it solves (I was told by the person who mapped my car, an ex-WRC mechanic - what exactly that means I don't know though).

Edited January 12, 2012 by feb

[kyepan 291]

i (we) recently discovered the leak down test.. if you can find someone with a compressor, buy or borrow a leak down tester.

 

screw it into the spark plug hole, and arrange the crank so both valves are closed. then open the valve on the tester..

 

firstly it will show a leak if it can't get fully up to pressure, if it leaks.. then

 

1) Do you get bubbles in the header tank? cylinder to water way leak on the head gasket

2) can you hear/ feel it coming up the dip stick? blow by the rings

3) is it coming out of the exhaust? exhaust valves

4) is it coming up the throttle? inlet valves.

 

brilliant bit of kit, will tell you what you need to know.

 

second might be a hydrocarbon tester, to check for hydrocarbons in the coolant, never figured out how it tells the difference between glycol and other hydrocarbons.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

How can one tell if the cooling system is excessively pressurised?

 

Coolant hoses really hard!

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

right, iv done a compression test, readings where around 205 psi cylinders 1 and 2, and cylinders 3 and 4 where round 215-220 psi so that seams ok to me, or does that sound like a problem??

done a polarity check on all the leads and they seem to be ok, although il be buying a new set tomorrow for peace of mind.

were thinking it could be a fueling problem, as it has a fse pressure regulator and grey vauxhall injectors, the only other injectors i have to try are blue 1.6 ones should i try them or try get hold of a complete 1900 inlet manifold to try?

 

that leek down tester sounds like a good bit of kit btw, never heard of one before il have to ask about!

so much to do now, in the midlle of changing the beam, running internal brake lines with a bias valve which needs to be done before i can test drive it!

thanks for alll the replys guys!

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

right, iv done a compression test, readings where around 205 psi cylinders 1 and 2, and cylinders 3 and 4 where round 215-220 psi so that seams ok to me, or does that sound like a problem??

done a polarity check on all the leads and they seem to be ok, although il be buying a new set tomorrow for peace of mind.

were thinking it could be a fueling problem, as it has a fse pressure regulator and grey vauxhall injectors, the only other injectors i have to try are blue 1.6 ones should i try them or try get hold of a complete 1900 inlet manifold to try?

 

that leek down tester sounds like a good bit of kit btw, never heard of one before il have to ask about!

so much to do now, in the midlle of changing the beam, running internal brake lines with a bias valve which needs to be done before i can test drive it!

thanks for alll the replys guys!

[dcc 855]

Benson is this the 1.9 8v?

 

Benson is this the 1.9 8v?

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

yes it is any suggestions??

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

yes the 1.9 8v really hope i dont have to pull it out again!

 

double post whoops!

Edited January 14, 2012 by bensonmi

[welshpug 1,657]

definitely get standard injectors on there, and a standard FPR if you can get hold of one

 

got a part number off the vauxhall greys?

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

i got a standard fpr here im going to try, just found some yellow injectors in the bottom of a box il try them too once i cleaned them up, il put the vauxhall injector number up here once they'r out.

im thinking it makes sense for it to be fuel related, as the engine was used in hill climbs most likely set up for full throttle, im using it at normal speeds at half throttle, another thing i need to change is fuel filter.

does any one know the duration of the skip brown road speed s cam shaft? as thats the head it has fitted, just out of interest.

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

injector part number...

0280150211

 

the end on 1 and 3 are nice and clean, 2 and 4 are black, is that significant?

[welshpug 1,657]

that's standard 1.6 8 valve 148cc/min@3 bar.

 

o.e part numebrs -

 

BMW 13 64 1 279 665

BMW 13 64 9 061 538

CITROEN 1984 32

CITROEN 91 001 644

PEUGEOT 91 001 644

PEUGEOT 1984 32

RENAULT 77 00 720 059

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

ah i was just looking at them next to the 1600 ones thinking they look very similar ha! its funny what people tell you when they sell you the car!

never mind, i got yellow ones in there now, glad to see though that with the inlet off its been nicely polished and matched to the inlet. hopefully getting somewhere now.

thanks again

[dcc 855]

might be overlooking something simple, like a ignition amp or AFM ?

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

might be overlooking something simple, like a ignition amp or AFM ?

 

quite likely you know, im ruling things out one by one, iv got a spare ignition amp to try, afm is a good call! that'l be next on the list

 

ooo just started her back up and she was way smoother reving, just need to see what its like under load now!

 

btw dcc, i got 2 sets of those brown plugs spare here for you if you still needed them.

Edited January 14, 2012 by bensonmi

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

I tried a re manufactured afm off a L reg 205 today, made it run like a bag of s#@t!

would it need adjusting or are the later cat equiped models not compatable with my engine/ wiring loom?

on a brighter note iv bought a 309 mi16 thats being delivered wednesday, i can see me trying to do a quick engine swap, wish i had more time! i think il resarect my project thread!

Edited January 15, 2012 by bensonmi

[Anthony 1,003]

205 GTi CAT uses Motronic management whereas non-CAT is Jetronic, and the AFM is completely different between them,

 

(205 GTi CAT uses the same AFM as 1.9 Mi16's)

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

that explains that then! i knew there was a difference somewhere, shame. thanks again

[bensonmi 4 2 Cars]

to cap this off, its sorted now! must have been standing water or the fact i changed the fpr, what ever i did it woks lol!

now for the other 101 jobs i need to finish in time ...